Flying Correct Approach and Depature Procedures

[s0cks]

So I've been watching some videos of users flying in their sim of choice but using correct procedures for approach and departure as per the airport charts & diagrams. It looked interesting and certainly much more realistic than just spotting the airport and flying my own approach (which I can often mess up, especially if I'm being impatient). I found the charts for NZ airports at www.aip.net.nz and can get my head around most of it. For now I just want to concentrate on VOR/DME and RNAV approaches, and maybe some ILS later on.

My question is, does anyone here do that? And if so do you just ignore ATC? Because I'm guessing none of this is going to work if I use FSX ATC. In which case I'm guessing I'm going to have to turn AI traffic off so it doesn't get in the way (though I guess I could just ignore them if I need to fly through them). What would be better though is an ATC system that adheres to charts - guessing though that these are unlikely to exist, especially for NZ.

[Ian Warren]

We did have a great six months were Nick Beatty was training as an air traffic controller then base in Dunedin's tower, he now works in Christchurch, running Multiplay with a ATC bloke really made it extra special, maybe the VATSIM boys have an option, having real McCoy controller , be possible the only current recommendation and I'd dough if it would be as accurate.

[whitei]

Gidday s0cks,

I have been dabbling round with creating approaches for the GPS in FSX, have a nosey at this one for Timaru using Robin's freeware VLCGodZone Timaru available on AVSIM I think, I am also having a crack at Wellington as well.

Here is a link to the file for the Timaru scenery http://www.filedropper.com/nztuadexade , remove the NZTU_ADEX_GVF.bgl and replace it with this one (DO A BACK IT UP JUST IN CASE IT GOES HORRIBLY WRONG).

One thing I do suggest is read the help file on operating the GPS, so you can skip some of the LEGS i.e. to skip the hold.

Hope this makes sense.

Cheers

Ian W

[s0cks]

Thanks,

So the above is basically an approach for the GPS units? So far I've just been creating the entire flight plan (with approach) in Plan-G and loading it in that way. I assume this has no bearing on ATC though? VATSIM would be cool, but at this stage I'm far to noob to jump on VATSIM - it would be nice to have an ATC addon that is close to real life so as to help me learn.

[SeanTK]

Hi. The default FSX ATC does allow you to fly different types of approaches, such as DME Arcs, NDB Approaches, RNAV, etc, etc starting at various intersections, navaids, or other points in space. When on an IFR flightplan and approaching your destination, usually the default ATC will say that you are X miles from the airport, turn heading #, expect (approach type) to Runway #.
At this time, you can usually select a different runway and/or approach, as well as transition, and you will be cleared for it.

I also must say that you should make use of EditVoicePack, which is a free addon that modifies the voices used by the default ATC by speeding them up (user preference but I use the fastest setting) and updating phraseology based on either ICAO or FAA standards. It may sound odd at first especially on the fastest voice setting, but based on my real world experience, it's much more realistic. You can also create/add your own phrases, callsigns, and other by-name identifiers as well.

Regarding approaches, I particularly enjoy the VOR/DME arc into Rotorua which goes around the lake. New Zealand especially seems to be great for practicing a variety of non-precision approaches.

[gojozoom]

I had a serious look at approaches at some point, but decided to stay with my half-official vor-to-vor navigation with dme arc approach - due to the fact that i don't have time for a full real-world flightplanning. It works most of the time, but there are places where i'm forced to do my homework (Queenstown for example). In terms of ATC I "opted out" as the default one is waaay too repititive, and there is no controller on Vatsim when I fly (late afternoons). So i just listen to music and watch my instruments

[Ian Warren]

Dan , In my case I just Simply say .. "I'm going in , I'm going in" damn the torpedo's to many bloody war movies

[deeknow]

Hey s0cks, as you know the default ATC is pretty lame, sounds like you already know about VATSIM, give it a crack some time, the NZ controllers are very tolerant if you let them know you're new to it.

There are a couple of excellent articles linked off the VATNZ pilot page following that might help re various procedures...
http://www.vatnz.net/pilots/pilot-training-articles/

I recommend you sign up at VATNZ and post stuff in the forums, especially if you fly in NZ airspace a lot.

Dean

[emfrat]

Hello s0cks -
I know all about impatience -I used to stay high too long, then drop down too quickly, and turn base far too early...I usually survived the go-around and walked away, but whether they could still use the aeroplane was a different question altogether.
I don't like the FS ATC - sometimes it can be too silly for words - but it has its uses. If the airfield I want comes up in the 'Nearest Airports' list, I can call the tower and find out how far out I am. BTW, Edit VoicePack is very good, for the speeded up responses.
I like to keep the plot in my head, but some planning is unavoidable. So I might use the FS planner, or Plan-G, and scribble a few notes, the main one being a cross-bearing 60 to 100nm out, from where I can slow down and begin a controlled descent to overfly the airport NDB or VOR in a downwind direction at about 2000', then make a procedure turn to bring me back to the landing direction, to start the final approach.
Great feeling when it all works.

[s0cks]

Thanks guys!

Sean, I wasn't aware ATC did this (don't use it much) but I assume it needs the approaches in FSX. Does it have the correct ones for NZ?

[ardypilot]

For RNAV approaches in FSX, if you have created an IFR flight plan before your flight (eg NZHN to NZAR), via the default GPS interface, you can just select Procedure > Select Approach > 'GPS 21' for example, then click either LOAD or ACTIVATE depending on how close to the fix you are. You also have the option of selecting a transition of either ATC Vectors, PONUI, ORERE, WAIKA, so select WAIKA if you are flying northbound, to follow the approach as detailed at http://www.aip.net.nz/pdf/NZAR_45.1_45.2.pdf

If you are in NAV mode on your autopilot, and your GPS is coupled to the autopilot (GPS/VLOC switch), the aircraft will fly the course for you and all that remains is to descend in accordance with the profile that matches the distance to waypoint box at the bottom of the plate.

Never use FSX ATC if you want to fly an approach as per the NZ AIP!

[Fozzer]

Don't forget.... ....

Before you move from you parking position, or attempt to land at an airfield....

Dial up "ATIS" on your radio!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_Ter...rmation_Service

The frequencies will be shown on your Charts.

That will give you all the information you need to make the correct and safe...and legal, manoeuvres!

Paul....I love using my radios!..... ...!

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Fozzer @ May 8 2014,8:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dial up "ATIS" on your radio!
The frequencies will be shown on your Charts.

One of the things I played around with pre FS98 to try and control rampant AI, It has got better, one thing people not dialing down there AI (keeping it 100%) and having double ups - another thing we tried to explain years back.

[emfrat]

AI has its uses too, once you rationalise it to get rid of multiple duplicates (if you see wot I mean).
When you know you're in the right general area, but you haven't yet gone visual, there is often an AI flight you can see, so you just follow it in...

[s0cks]

So I had some semi successful flights this evening. I notice that FSX is missing a whole bunch of waypoints/intersections though. Can they be downloaded somehow or must they always be manually entered?

[SeanTK]

There are global magnetic variation updates and navigation beacon updates here, but I'm not sure how thorough it is for NZ:

http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids.html

[s0cks]

Yup, found that, and I also found this: http://flyawaysimulation.com/downloads/fil...ersections-v11/

Neither seemed to work. I added them to FSX and then updated the Plan-G database but they didn't show. Maybe it's because I'm using ORBX and that overrides it with it's own - I'm really not sure. Guess most people who use them have the payware airliners with the up-to-date FMC's.

[deeknow]

Hey s0cks, yeah I mostly use payware airliners with Navigraph updates, but have also used the following which did work for me, not sure why it didnt for you...
http://www.aero.sors.fr/navint.html

[s0cks]

Well I confess it was late. I'm going to do some more testing tonight. Also found: http://www.gbmitch.net/

[Ian Warren]

One thing also added and taken in account is the magnetic variations over a specific distance using old charts tho with that in mind, FS is static.