FFS Closing Down

[jastheace]

Hey guys, just a quick note i see FFS is shutting down 30th April, got to fly their saab 340 bloody nice a/c

[ardypilot]

Does that mean it will be distributed as freeware once they close??

[jastheace]

i would doubt it, more the shame i say, but you never know i guess

[Alex]

Thats a bit of a pity, I heard they were making some quality aircraft.

Alex

[scon]

I was jsut about to put this up, there Saab was great I re-downloaded it today, looks like a small chance that an FSX patch will become available,

Trolly I guess it may become free once there coppy right runs out

[Ian Warren]

SAABs Are Great , Since last Month was at NZCH a AIRBUS... not 'an Airbus ' not worth the extra letter ..time is life ... piec a sh*t plane ... On This day due the PASP , was 2.5 hours late for my connectin flight to next port of call ... HECK ! DANG .. whoaooo REX Aviation , SUPERB .. I held the plane up .. they waited .. nice comfort 35deg on the ramp ... LOVE it .. Fly in to Destination , I spot a fire .... required to do if local or to Pilot over there , I report to 'SUPER pretty"MMM .... then have Cap with me mappin location .. to point location .... ok done

Hang on .. that was the beginning off last month .. rubbish 320's .. SAAB , Yeah going to buy this PC model , for a prezzie to me bro's young son .. maybe .. REX .. hes 4 , But well trained ... not by me .. I no nothing about Aeroplanes , maybe brother created prob !? ..

Since I had my ear SOOO close to startup , mmm and maybe consider Cockpit , I'll let ya no ..

[Bob Jones]

Hi all,

first post here, but I've been lurking for a long time.

RE the FFS Saab. Just to put things into context here, I was one of the development team and was with FFS for 3 years.

Here are some things you should know: The Saab will not be updated to FSX. The Saab will not have the promised fixes made to the VC view problems or unglued parts and the inelligable text on all the panels will not be re-made.

After the 30th of April, support will no longer exist, so if you lose your download and key, you will not get them back and you would have lost your $35USD.

The decision to close FFS down was made by one man only. The dev team had not had any contact with this product manager since Nov 06 and have not recieved any payment from FFS in over 3 months.

On behalf of the dev team, we are asking all potential customers not to buy this product as all you are doing is swelling the project managers pocket.

We are very saddened and annoyed at how the project manager has not had the common decency to come forward and explain himself to the customer base and the dev team, and we have come to the conclusion that he is nothing more than a liar and a thief.

I sorry to use this as my first post, and if the mods/admin think it inappropriate, please remove it and accept my apologies. All the dev team wish to do, is to warn customers of the FFS products not to waste their money.

Regards,
Bob Jones

[Alex]

The influence that one person has over a team of others, and the consequences of this persons actions are saddening.

Alex

[scon]

Hi all,

first post here, but I've been lurking for a long time.

RE the FFS Saab. Just to put things into context here, I was one of the development team and was with FFS for 3 years.

Here are some things you should know: The Saab will not be updated to FSX. The Saab will not have the promised fixes made to the VC view problems or unglued parts and the inelligable text on all the panels will not be re-made.

After the 30th of April, support will no longer exist, so if you lose your download and key, you will not get them back and you would have lost your $35USD.

The decision to close FFS down was made by one man only. The dev team had not had any contact with this product manager since Nov 06 and have not recieved any payment from FFS in over 3 months.

On behalf of the dev team, we are asking all potential customers not to buy this product as all you are doing is swelling the project managers pocket.

We are very saddened and annoyed at how the project manager has not had the common decency to come forward and explain himself to the customer base and the dev team, and we have come to the conclusion that he is nothing more than a liar and a thief.

I sorry to use this as my first post, and if the mods/admin think it inappropriate, please remove it and accept my apologies. All the dev team wish to do, is to warn customers of the FFS products not to waste their money.

Regards,
Bob Jones

What are the chances of the Dev team forming a new company

[Bob Jones]

@Alex: That one person only has one objective, and that is to make as much money for himself between now and the 30th.

@scon: That may be happening soon, we just need to iron out a few things first.

[Bingobob]

Devils adocate here

1, What proof do we have that Bob Jones is part of the Development Team? Like Alex said "The influence that one person has over a team of others".

2, Who owns the domain name and website rights of FFS? Wont be a development team idea to close the website if someone else has Domain and server rights?

3, If the product does not come up to expectations, not recieved or is faulty under the Consumer Credits Act you pay online with a credit card you place the item in dispute and no contact is able to be made to the retailer or satisfactory reply recieved (open to interpretation) your Credit Card transaction can be reversed.

It comes as no surprise to see no updates to certain products with the arrival of a another version of FS neither does it to hear that people like Lee Swordy, Mike Stone and a few silent others have departed the public flightsimming scene.

Bob the other Bob

[Charl]

Hi all,
<...>All the dev team wish to do, is to warn customers of the FFS products not to waste their money.

Regards,
Bob Jones

Bob
Welcome here, and thanks for making the post, it can't have been easy.
Whatever the merits, I think it's sound advice to wait until the internal issues are settled.
If nothing else it will send a message that all is not well with the product.

I hope you guys get your talents together to further develop and improve your aircraft.
I'm sure something will rise from the ashes, and maybe to the good.
Heck, this time yesterday I didn't even know there was an FFS Saab, now I'll be looking out for the definitive version!

[Bob Jones]

Devils adocate here 

1, What proof do we have that Bob Jones is part of the Development Team?  Like Alex said "The influence that one person has over a team of others".

2, Who owns the domain name and website rights of FFS?  Wont be a development team idea to close the website if someone else has Domain and server rights?

3, If the product does not come up to expectations, not recieved or is faulty under the Consumer Credits Act you pay online with a credit card you place the item in dispute and no contact is able to be made to the retailer or satisfactory reply recieved (open to interpretation) your Credit Card transaction can be reversed.

It comes as no surprise to see no updates to certain products with the arrival of a another version of FS neither does it to hear that people like Lee Swordy, Mike Stone and a few silent others have departed the public flightsimming scene.

Bob the other Bob

Bingobob,

1, I've been involved with the FS scene for many years, I started at POSKY, moved to PMDG where I made the master textures for the 737 and 1900D, I then moved to FFS. If you still don't believe who I am, all you need to do is to check out the FFS forum at Avsim http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az= ... &forum=246.

If you need further proof, ask any of the owners at POSKY or get in contact with my old kiwi mate John Tavendale.

2, FFS own the domain, it is run by Kathryn Payne who is CEO. Kathryn has no input to what FFS does. The project manager is her husband Gregg Payne, it was his and his idea alone to close FFS down. The promised updates/fixes were not even started. Now that FFS is closing, be under no illusion, you will not get support for any FFS product.

3, You will have a hard fight to get back any monies owed to you, I repeat and stand by my original post regarding Gregg Payne. He has conned the dev team and the customer base.

4, If you still do not believe me, go buy the product and on the 1st of May, try and get support. Do not include the dev team in your condemnation of developers, we have had no contact with the FFS management team since early Nov 06.
We have tried everything we can to get ourselves heard and to warn potential customers not to waste their hard earned money on a product that will no longer be supported.

At this moment, Greggs brother Kobie is deleting posts at the avsim FFS forum. Now if that doesn't tell you something about that team, then nothing will. You have a choice to either save your money or to swell one mans pocket for something that will be gone in a couple of days.

Regards,

Bob Jones

Edited to add to post.

[Ian Warren]

Hi all,

first post here, but I've been lurking for a long time.

RE the FFS Saab. Just to put things into context here, I was one of the development team and was with FFS for 3 years.

Here are some things you should know: The Saab will not be updated to FSX. The Saab will not have the promised fixes made to the VC view problems or unglued parts and the inelligable text on all the panels will not be re-made.

After the 30th of April, support will no longer exist, so if you lose your download and key, you will not get them back and you would have lost your $35USD.

The decision to close FFS down was made by one man only. The dev team had not had any contact with this product manager since Nov 06 and have not recieved any payment from FFS in over 3 months.

On behalf of the dev team, we are asking all potential customers not to buy this product as all you are doing is swelling the project managers pocket.

We are very saddened and annoyed at how the project manager has not had the common decency to come forward and explain himself to the customer base and the dev team, and we have come to the conclusion that he is nothing more than a liar and a thief.

I sorry to use this as my first post, and if the mods/admin think it inappropriate, please remove it and accept my apologies. All the dev team wish to do, is to warn customers of the FFS products not to waste their money.

Regards,
Bob Jones

SUPER THANX for the headsup BJ

[Bob Jones]

Hi all,
<...>All the dev team wish to do, is to warn customers of the FFS products not to waste their money.

Regards,
Bob Jones

Bob
Welcome here, and thanks for making the post, it can't have been easy.
Whatever the merits, I think it's sound advice to wait until the internal issues are settled.
If nothing else it will send a message that all is not well with the product.

I hope you guys get your talents together to further develop and improve your aircraft.
I'm sure something will rise from the ashes, and maybe to the good.
Heck, this time yesterday I didn't even know there was an FFS Saab, now I'll be looking out for the definitive version!

Hi Charl,

many thanks for the welcome, and no, it wasn't easy making my first post, but the customer base had to be told what was happening.

The internal matters will not be solved. Gregg has made the decision not to support any FFS product from the 30th, and he has not paid the dev team for almost 4 months.

We are in talks with each other at the moment as to what avenues we take next, and hopefully something good will come out of this fiasco.

Regards,

Bob Jones

[Bob Jones]

Hi Ian, you are more than welcome, and thank you for supporting us and not buying the product.

Regards,

Bob Jones

[scon]

To Bob Jones

I have sent an e-mail to the webmaster at FFS outlining my thoughts


Regards, Scott

[Bob Jones]

Hi Scott,

I would be interested to see his comments regarding your mail and anything relating to the dev team. We too have an email from him with his excuse for closing down, I also have the replys to that mail from another dev team member showing his disgust.

There is one thing to note, at no time has any of the FFS management defended themselves in any forum. They have been given every opportunity to do so, but all they have been doing is removing posts and closing down their own support forum.

Regards,

Bob jones

[scon]

Hi Scott,

I would be interested to see his comments regarding your mail and anything relating to the dev team. We too have an email from him with his excuse for closing down, I also have the replys to that mail from another dev team member showing his disgust.

There is one thing to note, at no time has any of the FFS management defended themselves in any forum. They have been given every opportunity to do so, but all they have been doing is removing posts and closing down their own support forum.

Regards,

Bob jones

Bob believe me, I hope to have made him sit on a very sharp pole, in the hope that he would give me a better answer to why he is Closing down.

I have your RV-7 and Saab and I made it knowen to him as a Customer I was very displeased

[Bingobob]

Devils adocate here 

1, What proof do we have that Bob Jones is part of the Development Team?  Like Alex said "The influence that one person has over a team of others".

2, Who owns the domain name and website rights of FFS?  Wont be a development team idea to close the website if someone else has Domain and server rights?

3, If the product does not come up to expectations, not recieved or is faulty under the Consumer Credits Act you pay online with a credit card you place the item in dispute and no contact is able to be made to the retailer or satisfactory reply recieved (open to interpretation) your Credit Card transaction can be reversed.

It comes as no surprise to see no updates to certain products with the arrival of a another version of FS neither does it to hear that people like Lee Swordy, Mike Stone and a few silent others have departed the public flightsimming scene.

Bob the other Bob

Bingobob,

1, I've been involved with the FS scene for many years, I started at POSKY, moved to PMDG where I made the master textures for the 737 and 1900D, I then moved to FFS. If you still don't believe who I am, all you need to do is to check out the FFS forum at Avsim http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az= ... &forum=246.

If you need further proof, ask any of the owners at POSKY or get in contact with my old kiwi mate John Tavendale.

2, FFS own the domain, it is run by Kathryn Payne who is CEO. Kathryn has no input to what FFS does. The project manager is her husband Gregg Payne, it was his and his idea alone to close FFS down. The promised updates/fixes were not even started. Now that FFS is closing, be under no illusion, you will not get support for any FFS product.

3, You will have a hard fight to get back any monies owed to you, I repeat and stand by my original post regarding Gregg Payne. He has conned the dev team and the customer base.

4, If you still do not believe me, go buy the product and on the 1st of May, try and get support. Do not include the dev team in your condemnation of developers, we have had no contact with the FFS management team since early Nov 06.
We have tried everything we can to get ourselves heard and to warn potential customers not to waste their hard earned money on a product that will no longer be supported.

At this moment, Greggs brother Kobie is deleting posts at the avsim FFS forum. Now if that doesn't tell you something about that team, then nothing will. You have a choice to either save your money or to swell one mans pocket for something that will be gone in a couple of days.

Regards,

Bob Jones

Edited to add to post.

Draw everyones attention to DEVILS ADVOCATE start to my post.

1, I never heard of you but then again I have never heard of a lot of people

1a, The names of the development team is not listed.

2, Yes I see Gregg Payne listed as the domain owner, thanks for clearing it up what confuses me is who is actually closing the website?

3, Like I said if you paid by Credit Card you will get your money back providing you have sufficant proof and cause to justify the refund and the complaint is lodged within a reasonable time of the purchase appearing on your statement. I know have been there and done that with a few products that have not had support or reached my expectations.
Pretty slanderous remarks to make on a public forum and one I think Admin should be aware of.

4, It wont be the first or the last product anyone buys that no longer has support as always with any product its buyer beware which goes back to Consumer Guarentees Acts.

I am sorry but for a new member to start slamming a product and its developer on this forum it would not be tolerated if aimed at one of its local developers as has happened.

Why should we allow this to happen with a product we know little on the developers?