NZFF

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:04 pm**

Hi guys,

I bought FS9 about a year ago and absolutley love it. I have been using it on the family computer as it is the only computer in the house. I am sick of having to uninstall FS9 because it is slowing the computer down alot, extremely low FPS (and if the do increase it is never consistant), etc etc. I know i should really having my FS running on my own computer that is dedicated to the program....so that's what i think i'll have to do. If i do get my own computer i will probably uprgade to FSX. I have recently purchased a few rather expensive things such as a PS3, ipod classic etc so i am running a bit low on cash

. What should i do? What is the sort of price range i will be looking at to get a computer that will be 100% compatible with FSX/FS9? Does anybody know of anyone who is selling a computer or anything along those lines? I would buy second hand.

Thanks in advance, ScottyB

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:48 pm**

ScottyB wrote:
QUOTE (ScottyB @ Dec 5 2008, 04:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I bought FS9 about a year ago and absolutley love it. I have been using it on the family computer as it is the only computer in the house. I am sick of having to uninstall FS9 because it is slowing the computer down alot, extremely low FPS (and if the do increase it is never consistant), etc etc. I know i should really having my FS running on my own computer that is dedicated to the program....so that's what i think i'll have to do. If i do get my own computer i will probably uprgade to FSX. I have recently purchased a few rather expensive things such as a PS3, ipod classic etc so i am running a bit low on cash . What should i do? What is the sort of price range i will be looking at to get a computer that will be 100% compatible with FSX/FS9? Does anybody know of anyone who is selling a computer or anything along those lines? I would buy second hand.

Ummm ... bad news, I'm afraid. FSX requires a stonkingly fast PC to run at anything like the speed you're used to with FS9. I too got fed up with my FS9 [re]installs. They'd only last for so long before all my add-ons killed them.

I upgraded my PC - and made the mistake of getting one with Vista pre-installed. Without getting into *that* argument ... I think XP would've run much faster. Difficult to know. Anyway - new PC ... so I thought I may just have a chance to finally run FSX (which had been sat there for a month or two!). Whilst the eye-candy is generally much better, I wouldn't say the improvement outweighed the loss in framerates - even after tweaking. Furthermore, I don't think FSX particularly adds that much in terms of interface or ease of use. On Vista, it creates cfg files in all sorts of weird places.

Whilst FS9/FSX are amazing products in their own right, I think the basic thing (without any add-ons at all) isn't *that* great. It's the FS community (freeware and payware) that turns it into a great sim. I always have the feeling with each new release of either Windows or FS that "it could do better".

Here are my specs (which still don't run FSX at FS9 speeds on my old PC):

Vista Home Premium 6 - fully patched.
CPU: 2.4 GHHz dual core.
RAM: 4Gb.
nVidia 8800 GTS 512Mb on-board.
nVidia WHQL 178.24. Run at 1600*1200, 32-bit (desktop and FSX).
FSX - Acceleration, fully patched.

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:59 pm**

You are assuming that 'speed' (i.e. Frames per second) is the only measure of immersion quality.....It is not. Of course FS9 will run faster than FSX on the same machine.....but each frame is presenting a higher quality image in FSX. The simulation of flight is better. The environment is better. The rendering is better.

Immersion quality (i.e. the feeling you are actually flying) is a mixture of a number of things....the majority of which FSX simply does better than FS9.

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:17 pm**

Timmo wrote:
QUOTE (Timmo @ Dec 5 2008, 05:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You are assuming that 'speed' (i.e. Frames per second) is the only measure of immersion quality.....It is not. Of course FS9 will run faster than FSX on the same machine.....but each frame is presenting a higher quality image in FSX. The simulation of flight is better. The environment is better. The rendering is better.

Immersion quality (i.e. the feeling you are actually flying) is a mixture of a number of things....the majority of which FSX simply does better than FS9.

Agreed

The problem is that my framerates are so awful (compared to my old FS9) that any immersion gained is negated by stutters, pauses, reloads etc. My FSX isn't *totally* awful (!!!) ... but having the sim do a lengthy reload of some scenery/textures 5 secs away from touchdown isn't very "immersive" for me! Also, the default mip-mapped "porridge" of areas that don't have any photoreal scenery is simply horrid.

Often - particularly when flying "long haul" - the textures at my destination look awful. I have to pause the sim and make some minor change to the display settings for them all to reappear. I have 4Gb RAM and 512Mb on my 8800 GTS. I've tried all sort of voodoo. Our daughter is no longer a virgin, so I can't sacrifice her

Addendum: At some stage, I may have to give my FSX the good old "FS9 Rogering" ... ie. Total re-install - with all my experimental add-ons removed. It's taken me months to add all these aircraft, sceneries etc. so I'm putting that day off, as you can imagine! Maybe that, once cleanedup, my FSX will perform a little better!

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:26 pm**

All of those things can be fixed/helped by using FSX specific addons- Non FSX addons drag performance down a lot.

....and if you think default FSX looks bad, then have a look at default FS9! haha

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:37 pm**

Timmo wrote:
QUOTE (Timmo @ Dec 5 2008, 06:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
All of those things can be fixed/helped by using FSX specific addons- Non FSX addons drag performance down a lot.

....and if you think default FSX looks bad, then have a look at default FS9! haha

Unfortunately I tend to "fly" out of Auckland a lot - NZAA being my default starting point. I'm running Robin's Auckland City, which may slow things up a bit (not being native) and I now have oodles of WOAI traffic to contend with. My suspicion is that other things "bite you in the bum" ... like aircraft "updated" for FSX. I've seen lots of posts about certain aircraft/panels/gauges being "framerate friendly". Looks like a fair few of mine are positively *nasty*!

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:59 pm**

Just for something different Adamski, turn all of your AI off and see if there is a difference in the way FSX runs... even with 1-2% AI set via the slider, my FSX turns into a bag of shite

Turn it off, and things get much, much better! Smoother FPS, almost never get the big pause/texture reload issue anymore - yes, the FPS does drop away when I'm using some of my ported aircraft, but I was expecting that anyway

And just for comparison my PC is almost the same spec as yours - mine has Vista ultimate and a 512mb 8600GT

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:26 pm**

Alfashark wrote:
QUOTE (Alfashark @ Dec 5 2008, 06:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Just for something different Adamski, turn all of your AI off and see if there is a difference in the way FSX runs... even with 1-2% AI set via the slider, my FSX turns into a bag of shite
Turn it off, and things get much, much better! Smoother FPS, almost never get the big pause/texture reload issue anymore - yes, the FPS does drop away when I'm using some of my ported aircraft, but I was expecting that anyway
And just for comparison my PC is almost the same spec as yours - mine has Vista ultimate and a 512mb 8600GT

OK - thanks - will give that a go. Do you have any extra AI installed (like WOAI/MyTrafficX/Ultimate Traffic)? I used to use Ultimate Traffic but dumped it in favour of WOAI.

Trouble is, I really like having all that activity - major source of immersion for me!

Wearing my combat sim hat, the positively *ancient* Falcon4 is still an amazing sim to play. Dated scenery/graphics but there's just so much going on ... in the air and on the ground (a complete WAR!). I know many people that still re-play the Korea campaign. The immersion in that sim is incredible. Framerates are in the 100's

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:40 pm**

Okay i have decided that when/if i get a new computer i will be running FS9 with add ons. So what price range would i be looking at that can run FS9 with high FPS and with anti-aliasing on?

Cheers, SB

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:34 pm**

ScottyB wrote:
QUOTE (ScottyB @ Dec 5 2008, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Okay i have decided that when/if i get a new computer i will be running FS9 with add ons. So what price range would i be looking at that can run FS9 with high FPS and with anti-aliasing on?

Whereabouts are you, Scotty? I'm wondering what stores are around for you. Trademe might be a bit "hit and miss" for used PC gear. I tend to check TM prices against the new equivalents on something like:

www.pbtech.co.nz or Paradigm PCs. If you want to check against individual components, then try www.pricespy.co.nz.

For FS9, I found that a high resolution gave more pleasing results than anti-aliasing. If you can get hardware to run it at 1600 * 1200 it should look pretty good - without the need to anti-alias.

Posted: **Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:48 pm**

Negative, no AI at all... until very very recently all of my flying has been done on a multiplayer server - who needs AI when you fly with a half pissed Texan, a Renn-fair actor/gunsmith, an ex-pat South African engineer, a former USAF U2 crew chief and a narcoleptic Puerto Rican? And thats just the usual crowd

The fact that we're all on TS makes us all forget about AI pretty quickly!

Posted: **Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:13 am**

My FSX runs without AI and low to medium settings on my piece. so something better than mine could do the job

Posted: **Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:58 am**

And yours is........?

Posted: **Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:16 am**

No AI...sliders off to the left...you know when I hear stuff like this, I wonder what it is you're doing with FSX???
I have an old copy of FS98 available for you - full AI (uhh it did have AI didn't it?), everything maxxed, at least you will get the flightsim experience there!

Anyone on a budget is just wasting their time in the FSX world.
Get a medium-grunty machine, by now they are a dime a dozen. (Heck I have a doorstop I could let you have that runs FS9 competently)
Keep 100 bucks out after hardware and FS9, and go treat yourself to a couple of the fabulous payware offerings that are still available for FS9.
Then load up the sim with as much incredible feeware as you want, AI, scenery, aircraft, it's like being in a candy store!
Then, go have the time of your life!

Posted: **Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:37 am**

Alfashark wrote:
QUOTE (Alfashark @ Dec 5 2008, 09:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
- who needs AI when you fly with a half pissed Texan, a Renn-fair actor/gunsmith, an ex-pat South African engineer, a former USAF U2 crew chief and a narcoleptic Puerto Rican? And thats just the usual crowd The fact that we're all on TS makes us all forget about AI pretty quickly!

an Uncle who works on B52s .... and a good friend , backseater in spy avionics and also

Charl wrote:
QUOTE (Charl @ Dec 6 2008, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No AI...sliders off to the left...you know when I hear stuff like this, I wonder what it is you're doing with FSX???
I have an old copy of FS98 available for you - full AI (uhh it did have AI didn't it?), everything maxxed, at least you will get the flightsim experience there!

Anyone on a budget is just wasting their time in the FSX world.
Get a medium-grunty machine, by now they are a dime a dozen. (Heck I have a doorstop I could let you have that runs FS9 competently)
Keep 100 bucks out after hardware and FS9, and go treat yourself to a couple of the fabulous payware offerings that are still available for FS9.
Then load up the sim with as much incredible feeware as you want, AI, scenery, aircraft, it's like being in a candy store!
Then, go have the time of your life!

Hecks ... you in for one hell of a time

Posted: **Sat Dec 06, 2008 1:11 pm**

Charl wrote:
QUOTE (Charl @ Dec 6 2008, 12:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No AI...sliders off to the left...you know when I hear stuff like this, I wonder what it is you're doing with FSX???
I have an old copy of FS98 available for you - full AI (uhh it did have AI didn't it?), everything maxxed, at least you will get the flightsim experience there!

Anyone on a budget is just wasting their time in the FSX world.
Get a medium-grunty machine, by now they are a dime a dozen. (Heck I have a doorstop I could let you have that runs FS9 competently)
Keep 100 bucks out after hardware and FS9, and go treat yourself to a couple of the fabulous payware offerings that are still available for FS9.
Then load up the sim with as much incredible feeware as you want, AI, scenery, aircraft, it's like being in a candy store!
Then, go have the time of your life!

Posted: **Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:18 am**

The problem is using old models. Simple as that.

Using old AI in FSX not good.
Using FSX AI (i.e. models have been compiled using the FSX SDK) = not bad.

Posted: **Wed Dec 10, 2008 4:32 pm**

Timmo wrote:
QUOTE (Timmo @ Dec 10 2008, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
...Using FSX AI (i.e. models have been compiled using the FSX SDK) = not bad.

Didn't know there were - which ones are you thinking of, Timmo?

Posted: **Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:47 pm**

Timmo wrote:
QUOTE (Timmo @ Dec 10 2008, 12:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The problem is using old models. Simple as that.

Using old AI in FSX not good.
Using FSX AI (i.e. models have been compiled using the FSX SDK) = not bad.

Yep ... that sounds pretty logical. Does anyone know what WOAI uses?

Does FSX AI use DDS textures etc.? Are they faster than the BMP equivalents?

Posted: **Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:54 pm**

Adamski wrote:
QUOTE (Adamski @ Dec 10 2008, 08:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yep ... that sounds pretty logical. Does anyone know what WOAI uses?

I haven't seen any AI using anything but 16-bit DXT3 (including WOAI), not sure what Timmo is thinking of.

NZFF

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