Photoreal ground textures

[2fst4u]

Hey guys. I assumed most of you top dogs in the scenery industry would frequent here and this could turn out to be a good accumulation of questions so this is probably a good place for this question:

How can I create photo-real ground textures?

Any kind will do. Personally I'm not looking to becoming a competitor for you so I'm not looking at distributing anything publicly. So using Google Earth photos would be fine I'd assume? I have the SDK If need be and Would basically just like to lay some ground textures and compile some simple BGLs because as we all know, many of us like to fly close to home and home for all of us is a different place...

I understand this may not be the easiest of tasks but it can't be as hard as Gmax, can it?

So yea, discourage me if you think it would be wiser, give me a direction to look if you think it might help (Nobody elsewhere can really help. They all spit out programs that don't seem to work well or have a lot of constrictions) or post a resounding "Me too, I would also like to know how!" If you do in fact, want to know how.

Any help is good help

[creator2003]

http://www.fsdeveloper.com is the best resource for all your Questions i think ,ive gone through some posts there tonight that point to tools you can use and learn so go check it out ...

[2fst4u]

Hmm, there are a lot of choices there. and the programs that I have downloaded just don't seem to like me at all. What tools do you recommend?

[toprob]

QUOTE (2fst4u @ Dec 10 2009, 09:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, there are a lot of choices there. and the programs that I have downloaded just don't seem to like me at all. What tools do you recommend?

I can understand this completely, there are a lot of tools around, but I haven't had much luck with the ones I've tried. The problem for me is that they rely on linking to map servers, and these servers are getting better at locking out uses like this.
Google is the toughest, although they have the best imagery. They don't allow 'harvesting' of images at all, and fight hard to prevent this. Many people figure out ways around this, temporarily, but basically it is more trouble than it is worth. There is also the legal and moral aspect, which I'm rather hot on -- since getting these tools to work involves breaking the supplier's licensing agreement, it is outside the scope of NZFF.

However some people have success with tools such as FSEarthTiles and SbuilderX, for their own use. (I'm assuming you are using FSX here.)

The alternative, which is what I use, is to use the SDK tools, based on Resample.exe. There are plenty of issues with this method, in that you still need to source images, and you normally need some way to reproject your images to a format which Resample can use. I've spent a bit of money on different tools to help me make scenery, but by far the most has gone into this particular area. There are probably cheaper ways to do this, but I'm not aware of them. So I don't normally recommend using this method unless you are prepared to make a considerable investment in software and training.

So all I can suggest is that you choose one of the automatic tools, such as FSEarthTiles, and spend a lot of time on their support forums to get it working properly. Like all sim development, there is really no easy way to do anything, but once you spend six months practising a few things, you'll begin to make some real progress.

[NZ255]

FSEarth tools

[2fst4u]

Righto, thanks guys.

I've given FS Earth tiles a go for the second time, and read the user document properly, AND cracked the configuration codes. So far so good, I'm currently loading it up to see if it works well. Quite a painless process. Just few quirks that I can't really get around if I'm going to do this the easy way. Obviously NZ coverage is pitiful. And in some places the images are sub-standard (like in Wellington, there are cloud in the images )

Also, for some reason, it totally gets rid of your autogen. in the area. Might have to use SbuilderX for that

[toprob]

QUOTE (2fst4u @ Dec 10 2009, 11:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obviously NZ coverage is pitiful. And in some places the images are sub-standard (like in Wellington, there are cloud in the images.
Also, for some reason, it totally gets rid of your autogen. in the area. Might have to use SbuilderX for that

The autogen will always go with photo scenery. The sim finds the appropriate ground texture tile based on landclass, then finds the autogen annotations which DIRECTLY relate to that tile. When you replace these tiles with your own, then you'd need to re-annotate them. Hence the included Annotator in the SDK.

As far as coverage is concerned, welcome to the world of NZ photo imagery:) New Zealand is one of the few countries which does not have any freely available aerial imagery, now that LINZ no longer serve it. This project was taken over by a military/local government collaboration, and since the military is involved now, any imagery becomes a) precious; and b) secret... I suspect this is so that in the event of a war, they can bombard the enemy with aerial photos...

Since most people can't justify the cost of purchasing images, your best bet is to beg them. Find out who have quality images for the area you want, and try and talk them into letting you use them. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't.

[2fst4u]

right, but if I have images of my own, how would I go about using them? Is that where resample.exe comes in?

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (toprob @ Dec 10 2009, 12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As far as coverage is concerned, welcome to the world of NZ photo imagery:) New Zealand is one of the few countries which does not have any freely available aerial imagery, now that LINZ no longer serve it. This project was taken over by a military/local government collaboration, and since the military is involved now, any imagery becomes a) precious; and b) secret... I suspect this is so that in the event of a war, they can bombard the enemy with aerial photos...

But true New Zealand ... Comrade Vellcome , ve vant it all .... vots yours is vours and vots ours is Ours .... zoo have zee moneys .. NOT ENUFF WE VIPP U VOFF !

[toprob]

QUOTE (2fst4u @ Dec 10 2009, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

right, but if I have images of my own, how would I go about using them? Is that where resample.exe comes in?

Yes, but the amount of work depends a lot on what projection your image uses. Resample requires WGS84, but NZ images tend to be in one of the two main projections -- NZTM or the old NZMG.

If you already have a WGS84 projection, then you just need to create an INF file which is then processed by dropping it onto Resample.

Having said that, there are a number of steps which may or may not be required first:)

The INF file looks something like this:

QUOTE

; Resample INFormation file
; Variations test

[Source]
Type = MultiSource
NumberOfSources = 2

[Source1]
Type = BMP
Layer = Imagery
SourceDir = "SourceData"
SourceFile = "variation1.bmp"
ULXMAP = -122.308
ULYMAP = 0
XDIM = 4.27484E-05
YDIM = 4.27484E-05
Variation = Day

[Source2]
Type = BMP
Layer = Imagery
SourceDir = "SourceData"
SourceFile = "variation2.bmp"
ULXMAP = -122.308
ULYMap = 0
XDIM = 4.27484E-05
YDIM = 4.27484E-05
Variation = Night

[Destination]
DestDir = "Output"
DestBaseFileName = "Variations_DayNight"
UseSourceDimensions = 1[/quote]

This is one of the resample examples, which I must admit I poured over for months before it began to make sense.

'Variation1.bmp' and 'Variation2.bmp' are the aerial images, here they are the day and night textures. It may help to concentrate just on one, first.

ULXMAP and ULYMAP are the X and Y co-ordinates of the upper left pixel of your image. XDIM and YDIM are the dimensions of one pixel of your image.

Needless to say, this is a bit tricky to work out.

If you are lucky, you can find an image where this information is embedded already -- a GeoTIFF. This is a TIFF image with geotags, showing where exactly it belongs in the world. If you find a WGS84 GeoTIFF, then this is even better. You can just use this as-is in Resample:

QUOTE

[Source]
Type = GeoTIFF
SourceDir = "SourceData"
SourceFile = "MillenniumImage3.Tif"
Layer = Imagery
Variation = Day

[Destination]
DestDir = "Output"
DestBaseFileName = "Millennium_Image"
DestFileType = BGL
LOD = Auto[/quote]

I actually like to make my own GeoTIFFs, but this requires some expensive software. I don't know if you can do this some other way, but you may want to google something like 'geo-referencing tool'.

The automatic photo-scenery creators tend to do all the work of creating the INF file, which is why people like them. Some of them don't allow you to start with your own image, though. And if they do, the image still needs to be WGS84.

However once you've made a dozen working INF files, it's a piece of cake:)

toprob

NZFF Pro

 

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 4:56 pm

Posts: 6711

Location: Upper Hutt

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[bluebird79]

There is plenty of reall good images for NZ but most are NOT FREE at all... if you want good High Resolution Images these days you have to pay good money for them at times.

I get mine via Global Mapper but you need to purchase the Full Version and then you have to pay "per image" to get good images and even then some will have some cloud cover. I also use a program called Manifold when doing mesh but it's not free either. I do a lot of Mesh so I have got my money's worth from these programs but if you take a look at something like "Norfolk Island" or "Christchurch" and I had to purchase all the programs and images again you can kiss about $3,000.00 good bye very quickly.

If you are interested in making things such as Landclass & Waterclass try SBuilderX Version 3.31. You can do very large areas of Landclass and Waterclass with out any problems at all.

Cheers
Ian

[2fst4u]

wow, there's a wealth of info here now. My dad works for Transpower and I've seen this expensive google-earth-esque program he has that probably has something to do with geotiffs. I'll see if I can use them. Thanks heaps for the info

[NZ255]

When looking for mesh data, what do you search for?

I was interested in having a go. Came across 'koordinates' they have some free stuff there, good enough for a first try.