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Warkworth/Kawau

https://www.nzff.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10972

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:12 pm
by Michael
Hey Forumers!

Anyone know of a scenery that covers this kind of area. Grandparents use to have a Bach on Scandretts bay until their 50 year lease ran out and the farmer sold the area to the Council.

Pretty random area, there'sa a couple of private pads round and one on Kawau I think. Anyway spent every child summe rhere and just wanted to have a bit of a fly!

- Michael

PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:23 pm
by madkudu
Nope I dont think so, it would be good to have photoreal scenery for that area ( fsx.gif !!), like from Pakiri/Mangawhai to like Warkworth/Orewa which fits into Timmos Kaipara Flats and Springhill airfields and joins up to Robs amazing photoreal Supercity, it is so beautiful flying down the coast over all the beaches in real life, I wish I could say the same for flight sim...
Notable famous buildings that could also be modelled include Mansion House, Matakana Village Cinemas and the Pub, Masonic hall in WW, Nautilus in Orewa etc etc... and dont forget my house aswell tongue.gif

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:35 pm
by FlyerMike
Hi Michael
I live in Snells Beach, looking out to Kawau Island and have been working on a photoscenery background for the area.
Unfortunately the photo tiles are sourced from "those that shall not be named", nor shared, nor published in any way in this forum I believe.
This is a great pity and detracts from my enthusiasm for the project if it is only for my private use and enjoyment.
I have only really finished the scenery complete with blend and watermask for Whangaparoa and Tiritiri but without autogen so far.
I do have the backgrounds for coastal areas and inland upto Omaha and Wellsford so should get my finger out and compile the scenery properly.
I have really only just got to grips with colour correcting the images and making the masks. It has been a protracted learning process unfortunately.
I am even lower down the learning curve with gmax so the models of landmarks like the Matakana Cinemas and the Orewa Nautilus are a long, long way off!
Still one can dream and Timmo's vector landclass and the autogen development from Creator2003 will make a great difference to enjoying NZ flying.
Cheers
Mike

PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:09 pm
by NZ255
How is it that Ozx can get away with it? Using Google earth scenery?

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:01 am
by creator2003
Im not sure how they pass it ,but i did do some research and came up with some things that mite help ,this as far as i know is a new part to there copyright as before ,it was a no ,No way kinda copyright
first of all http://earth.google.com/support/bin/answer...mp;answer=21422
QUOTE
Google Help › Google Earth Help › Learn More › Legal and Privacy Issues › Legal Issues › Use of images
Legal Issues: Use of images
Print
This article explains that:

You can use Google Earth imagery for personal use, but cannot sell it to others.

We're flattered to hear that you're further incorporating Google Earth into your online world. You can personally use an image from the application (for example on your website, on a blog or in a word document) as long as you preserve the copyrights and attributions including the Google logo attribution. However, you cannot sell these to others, provide them as part of a service, or use them in a commercial product such as a book or TV show without first getting a rights clearance from Google.

If you require these commercial rights, please visit Google's permissions guidelines. You can then submit your application through our online request form.

Please note that we'll only be able to respond to permission requests submitted through the above form.[/quote]


on the page i provided you will find a couple of links ,that you can send questions

failing a clear answer from goggle you could post on the OZX forums asking them ,from my point of view at the moment i still cant see how its legal and i would have thought each one is taking a risk uploading the source ,unless each person has gone through the process above and got permission from goggle or the councils/govts that own the imagery ...

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:18 am
by NZ255
but if no ones profiting from it....... unsure.gif

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:34 am
by creator2003
Yeah you would have to email or contact goggle over that ,i would like to see a clear answer from goggle on FSX usages and freeware uploading to a service like flightsim.com or private server for others ,let us know what they say
mike

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:12 am
by FlyerMike
NZ255 wrote:
QUOTE (NZ255 @ Dec 1 2009, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
How is it that Ozx can get away with it? Using Google earth scenery?


Looking at Google Permissions - http://www.google.com/permissions/geoguidelines.html
They seem quite specific:
Quote:

"Use in Software including GIS software, flight simulators etc: You may not scrape or otherwise export Content from Google Maps or Earth for use within another application. For offline imagery or mapping with your own datasets, please learn about our Google Earth Enterprise product. "

However perhaps we should persue them with requests for limited and always free usage? They do mention "fair usage" else where in that document, though this appears to be a legal concept, varying between countries and they do not elaborate too much.

The above quote does however seem to specifically preclude the Flightsim usage. Unfortunately!

Mike

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:38 am
by cowpatz
FlyerMike wrote:
QUOTE (FlyerMike @ Dec 1 2009, 06:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Looking at Google Permissions - http://www.google.com/permissions/geoguidelines.html
They seem quite specific:
Quote:

"Use in Software including GIS software, flight simulators etc: You may not scrape or otherwise export Content from Google Maps or Earth for use within another application. For offline imagery or mapping with your own datasets, please learn about our Google Earth Enterprise product. "

However perhaps we should persue them with requests for limited and always free usage? They do mention "fair usage" else where in that document, though this appears to be a legal concept, varying between countries and they do not elaborate too much.

The above quote does however seem to specifically preclude the Flightsim usage. Unfortunately!

Mike


I wonder how applications like G Plan get away with it then.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 8:48 am
by creator2003
I really dont know ? this is why we dont do it here or really chat about the idea ,because it is pretty grey when you see others using kml and images and then read the above quotes ,anyway im not sure if id what to see goggle written all over my images as they are watermarked all over ,
I know its a pain but guys who what these areas done, there is ways to do this and source the imagery legit from councils etc ,yes it mite cost money around $40 a small tile normally , you can work out deals etc ,
In my case im having to source permission from Hamilton city council as they are the owners of the images im wanting to use ,this could cost me big time ,so id offset that price by selling my models with it and making a complete package
Once you own the tiles you can do whatever you may please with them.

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:08 am
by FlyerMike
creator2003 wrote:
QUOTE (creator2003 @ Dec 1 2009, 08:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I really dont know ? this is why we dont do it here or really chat about the idea ,because it is pretty grey when you see others using kml and images and then read the above quotes ,anyway im not sure if id what to see goggle written all over my images as they are watermarked all over ,
I know its a pain but guys who what these areas done, there is ways to do this and source the imagery legit from councils etc ,yes it mite cost money around $40 a small tile normally , you can work out deals etc ,
In my case im having to source permission from Hamilton city council as they are the owners of the images im wanting to use ,this could cost me big time ,so id offset that price by selling my models with it and making a complete package
Once you own the tiles you can do whatever you may please with them.


The watermarks are barely visible (if at all) over land and the watermask takes care of the sea areas.
Your idea of sourcing images from local councils is worth looking into though I wonder if the more rural areas have these available? (Getmapping would not image Scotland in the UK for similar reasons, I believe)
Other software that links to GoogleMaps is I am sure licenced and usually interfaces with the Google element "as is", which is somewhat different to scenery designers wanting to include the actual images (though "tweaked" in their scenery.
Anyway I think discussing the options is permissable and healthy for our hobby.
Hope the Forum mediators agree?
Cheers
Mike

PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 10:35 am
by creator2003
Ive been on the phone to the council over my own imagery im sourcing and got a email response to some of this copyright stuff that is way before it ever gets to goggle , from this quote out of my email

QUOTE
From my understanding of the data agreement from talking to another person is such for what you are talking, you will have to talk directly with NZ Aerial mapping as I believe (But I will get ###### to confirm this) it is a shared IP rights on the information and if it is not being used for an HCC project the authorization must come from NZAM.[/quote]

now i rang NZAM and asked about the 30cm coverage of the city as this is what they own and only cover ,as my project is payware i asked also for a quote but also asked about the freeware option or donation type theme ,they where pretty clear im going to have to pay for it no matter,as thats the business they are in..

anyway the very helpful guy there put me on to terralink international ltd who covers 1.6 meter rural areas of my area and are the main source for the larger side of things around NZ ,that also is pay as you go and will cost me a arm and leg to get but i will own the full rights to use them as i want in FSX or anything else

these images from goggle are blogged down to the max with underlining copyrights before they are put up on goggle earth ,for me im staying away from it unless there is a clear yes you can from goggle or goggles source ,to be honest i dont think there will be ..

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:49 am
by mattyHamNZ
creator2003 wrote:
QUOTE (creator2003 @ Nov 27 2009, 11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ive been on the phone to the council over my own imagery im sourcing and got a email response to some of this copyright stuff that is way before it ever gets to goggle , from this quote out of my email



now i rang NZAM and asked about the 30cm coverage of the city as this is what they own and only cover ,as my project is payware i asked also for a quote but also asked about the freeware option or donation type theme ,they where pretty clear im going to have to pay for it no matter,as thats the business they are in..

anyway the very helpful guy there put me on to terralink international ltd who covers 1.6 meter rural areas of my area and are the main source for the larger side of things around NZ ,that also is pay as you go and will cost me a arm and leg to get but i will own the full rights to use them as i want in FSX or anything else

these images from goggle are blogged down to the max with underlining copyrights before they are put up on goggle earth ,for me im staying away from it unless there is a clear yes you can from goggle or goggles source ,to be honest i dont think there will be ..



Hi Mike,

Im curious as to how much they are wanting to sting you for the imagery and what size the coverage area is you are asking for? Im looking for a solution to blend my Aerial photos I have taken for my Te Kowhai project legally. At the moment I have blended the area in with google earth imagery to match my other stuff covering the waikato. I want to release it soon but would like to do so with a nice photoreal background for at least a few square km's.

Cheers,
Matt

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:06 pm
by creator2003
I got a quote for over $7000 for 1.6 meter res though this was to also take into a count the amount of tiles i was getting ,ie bulk quote , i will not be able to afford or make back that ever in sales so are left with the linz images to use ,they are what they are and are free to use..
Im now working just on the airport and the area that covers , and will get back to the greater area after that .
This is taking me along time i know ,i feel as the time has gone by so has modeling and the techniques ,so im forever remodeling parts of objects ive made already to keep up ,i am slowly finding a finish line and i should be happy with it soon i hope ..

As you have a addon on the go and are probably closer than i am to release, i would blend off a certain distance from around your airport into default landclass then really you can never go wrong , its up to you how far you cover your photo as the linz image is at low res to whats out there and anything will look better that you have or pay4 ..

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:14 pm
by mattyHamNZ
$7000....WOW thats a lot of moola!

Iwas going to ask where to get the LINZ imagery, but I have found it thanks!

My modeling is very much a new aquired skill so all though I am happy with the way everything looks, I am still concerned about doing things correctly. Is there any chance of having a 1 on 1 with you or someone else with significant experience in this area just to check I am doing things the best way? What part of the country do you live in?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:10 pm
by creator2003
Sure ,im in Hamilton and are normally at home most days in Nawton ,being the school holidays the kids are running around everywhere ,
i will be down at the TG airshow with the others next month, so you could catch up with the dudes here and myself ..

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 7:47 pm
by mattyHamNZ
creator2003 wrote:
QUOTE (creator2003 @ Jan 16 2010, 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Sure ,im in Hamilton and are normally at home most days in Nawton ,being the school holidays the kids are running around everywhere ,
i will be down at the TG airshow with the others next month, so you could catch up with the dudes here and myself ..


Thats funny, Im in Norton/Hamilton myself! I'm on Rosehill Pl. off Bartholomew. laugh.gif

Maybe we could catch up some time when you have a spare moment??

Matt
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