Justflight Fokker F. 27 "Friendship" is available

[Ian Warren]

The RNZAF Troopship is on my to-do-list for sure - as long as nobody else would like to take over, since I'll be quite busy with the NAC variants.

And it goes without external tanks, at least NZ 2781 once did:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/New-Zeal ... 3c3ad24b38


Cheers,
Markus.

Have the Paint plans here for the RNZAF F-27 and yes they for about 18 months without under-wing tanks .

[Wildbillkelso]

Markus (and CP)... now i know your involved , this one is on my list ... GREAT WORK

Thanks, mate!
Maybe I should ask JustFlight for some little refund...?

Cheers,
Markus.

[cowpatz]

I downloaded this whilst it was on sale.
Another disappointing download.
The lack of 2D panels or even pop ups is a major issue. The VC is not clear enough to be able to read any labeling from a distance. The tool tips may or may not work depending on distance and even if the tool tip does work you will still need to get closer to make the switch work. The eyepoint tool is OK but is to slow and cumbersome for regular use. Track IR would be mandatory or you will spend a lot of time zooming, panning and craning your neck.
The ADI is weird. The horizon line is curved! In order to see the flight instruments clearly you have to get so close that you cannot see outside! The ADSI and HSI should have been expandable/repositionable pop ups.
Starting the engines is weird. That is not to say that some F27's may have this system but I have not seen it. All of NAC/Air NZ friendships required the manual positioning of the HP cock to open at 1500 RPM.
How come 16000 RPM is the max limit (14500 in the 100 series and 15000 in the 500).
The flight tutorial says to select airspeed hold in the cruise....really? it then says to manually adjust the thrust....so why airspeed hold. This is a pitch function and should only be used in the climb/descent.
It also says "It is good discipline to push the levers into the LOCK OUT position once the engines are
started and to leave them there until it is time to shut down." . What bollocks. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. The locks prevent the props going to flight fine pitch when in the air. Why would you disable them?
The real prop dynamics have not been correctly modeled
The auto pilot should have been another pop up.
No zoom climb when Flap 11.5 or 16 selected. Very prominent in the aircraft.
Sounds are not brilliant. Ground fine sounds like reverse thrust. In fact I can't get it to work as just increases the RPM.
Why are the throttles almost horizontal at idle?
The Fraser McKay panel is much better and that has been out a while now.
Very disappointing ...and worst of all no refunds on a download!!!!!
Bugger.

[Ian Warren]

I downloaded this whilst it was on sale.
Another disappointing download.
The lack of 2D panels or even pop ups is a major issue.

A patch incoming with popups , I think Auto pilot and GPS.

The VC is not clear enough to be able to read any labeling from a distance. The tool tips may or may not work depending on distance and even if the tool tip does work you will still need to get closer to make the switch work. The eyepoint tool is OK but is to slow and cumbersome for regular use. Track IR would be mandatory or you will spend a lot of time zooming, panning and craning your neck.

There is a reversion on tool tips included

The ADI is weird. The horizon line is curved! In order to see the flight instruments clearly you have to get so close that you cannot see outside! The ADSI and HSI should have been expandable/repositionable pop ups.

HSI and ADF are getting looked at and specific for better viewing , lot of people complained about this.

Starting the engines is weird. That is not to say that some F27's may have this system but I have not seen it. All of NAC/Air NZ friendships required the manual positioning of the HP cock to open at 1500 RPM.
How come 16000 RPM is the max limit (14500 in the 100 series and 15000 in the 500).
The flight tutorial says to select airspeed hold in the cruise....really? it then says to manually adjust the thrust....so why airspeed hold. This is a pitch function and should only be used in the climb/descent.

I'm very sure this was limited to the FSX functions

It also says "It is good discipline to push the levers into the LOCK OUT position once the engines are
started and to leave them there until it is time to shut down." . What bollocks. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. The locks prevent the props going to ground fine pitch when in the air. Why would you disable them?

Another point brought up and a long standing F-27 driver point this out , again was too difficult to reproduce.
The real prop dynamics have not been correctly modeled

The auto pilot should have been another pop up.

Incoming patch will fix that.

No zoom climb when Flap 11.5 or 16 selected. Very prominent in the aircraft.

That was not mentioned by actual Friendship drivers

Sounds are not brilliant. Ground fine sounds like reverse thrust.
Ground contact points don't seem correct.

New Sound package is incoming , the ground points were a debated issue as with the eloe's and gear movement.

Why are the throttles almost horizontal at idle?

That is a typical animation problem just to pisss us off

[Splitpin]

Hmmm .... may sit this one out for a while .
Although I'm mainly into the visuals , i was looking forward to "book" flying this (as best the sim can do).

Just my uninformed 2 cents worth , but I've noticed a couple of things about the externals ..... one is the wing light (landing ?) in the photos it is a drop down type , on the sim its built into the leading edge , and the window (glass ) textures could be better ..... but not having seen the sim in the flesh , it could just be the screens.

I understand the limitations within FSX ,however , it would be nice to buy something that was complete , and not requiring patches and fixes a week or so after release .
The fact that a type rated Captain can identify so many issues ...that can be fixed makes me wonder again , about the depth of beta testing .
Having never designed or even painted anything for FSX , i cant say much more , except , the paints that are coming out are looking great

Knowing my luck I'll just get the wings again anyway (as per DC-8 and Canberra) but to be fair , that issue was fixed quickly ... but again, it appears it wasn't tested in all the OS's it was advertised to support

[cowpatz]

The 100 series have retractable landing lights but the 500 had them embedded into the wing LE.

[Wildbillkelso]

I agree to the criticism concerning the lack of popups. At least an autopilot window would be quite handy.

Starting the engines is weird. That is not to say that some F27's may have this system but I have not seen it. All of NAC/Air NZ friendships required the manual positioning of the HP cock to open at 1500 RPM.

Indeed Fraser McKay implemented this procedure to his FS9 HS.748 panel, working in FSX too...

How come 16000 RPM is the max limit (14500 in the 100 series and 15000 in the 500).

I've already mentioned this item at http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/s ... l%29/page5 with no response yet.
But since staying within the RPM envelope of the Darts 532 (accustomed from the 748) leads to acceptable perfomance, I can live with it.

Let's wait for the patch announced...

Cheers,
Markus.

[Ian Warren]

The 100 series have retractable landing lights but the 500 had them embedded into the wing LE.

That was retrofitted in the later .. going to the shop .. 100 s were we equipped/modified the same .. 500s were just a remodel of the 100/200/300
bypass the 500 , the 600/700 and Maritime all were really a 100/200/300 , lotta people don't our final aircraft were the early short nose but when USA's Fairchild Company come in with the weather radar , Fokker took to it like a dose off salts took to the idea , after then mod's were affected on the current fleet lasting into 1972 .

[SA227]

It also says "It is good discipline to push the levers into the LOCK OUT position once the engines are
started and to leave them there until it is time to shut down." . What bollocks. In fact nothing could be further from the truth. The locks prevent the props going to flight fine pitch when in the air. Why would you disable them?

When I did my F27 rating we flew in lock out 100% of the time and here is the background.

Over time there have been a number of instances when training in the real aircraft where people have forgotten to return the HP cock to lock out and subsequently cooked engines. In some cases they cooked both engines and had to force land.
In 1990 the FAA, Mountain Air Cargo (FEDEX) and Rolls Royce test flew an aircraft taking it up to VNE with the HP cock in lock-out and measured the stresses on the airframe and prop. The aircraft was also wired so the RR engineer could play with the prop via a black box in flight. During all testing the aircraft was perfectly controllable when one prop was brought below the 32 degree pitch in flight at VNE.

The FAA deemed that the HP cock in open during cruise was an overkill and along with Rolls Royce issued an STC in 1992 permitting the use of lock-out at all times during flight. The problem of burnt out engines has not occurred since this time.

One of the two pilots that did the test flying signed off my type rating

[cowpatz]

Think you might be referring the the cruise lock Andrew as fitted only to the 500 series (separate light) and yes many an aircraft hung on that lock. The cruise lock was introduced because of the higher cruise speed of the 500 and that a prop failure could lead to it crashing thru the Flight fine lock into ground fine. It would be risky operating a 100/500 in lockout all the time and probably in contravention of the flight manual. Is/was this procedure endorsed by Fokker do you know? Of course I was off the F27 by 1992 though and this may effect my reasoning on it. Brave crew to test a sudden prop failure...or was it gradually reduced thru 32 degrees? There may well be a difference.

[Ian Warren]

Should had both you guys on the beta team mes thinks !

[waka172rg]

Should had both you guys on the beta team mes thinks !

It wouldn't have made any difference as you know Ian, Barry said "It wasn't high end simulation and lockout was not simulated" Along with other engine parameters.

[Ian Warren]

Should had both you guys on the beta team mes thinks !

It wouldn't have made any difference as you know Ian, Barry said "It wasn't high end simulation and lockout was not simulated" Along with other engine parameters.

And in saying that, the few F-27 drivers said , one specifically said in his 25 years never seen a cockpit layout like this, I researched it here found in my library five different variations and in interest sake I trawled the net for Fokker 27 cockpit and found another six again different layouts, no mention whether they were a Fairchild aircraft or a Fokker.

[waka172rg]

And in saying that, the few F-27 drivers said , one specifically said in his 25 years never seen a cockpit layout like this, I researched it here found in my library five different variations and in interest sake I trawled the net for Fokker 27 cockpit and found another six again different layouts, no mention whether they were a Fairchild aircraft or a Fokker.

Yes he was in his 80's I'm loving this model tho first complete one in FSX we all know its been a long time coming, over all as a FSX simulation 8/10. Oorah

[waka172rg]

Zsolt also put up on avsim some Royal Netherlands Air Force repaints

http://library.avsim.net/whatsnew.php?Sort=Name

[Ian Warren]

I did start painting but Markus returned and jumped in, his work/paints are supreme

[Ian Warren]

Zsolt also put up on avsim some Royal Netherlands Air Force repaints

"Zsolts" artistry is amazing , I'll have a look at that shortly.

[waka172rg]

I did start painting but Markus returned and jumped in, his work/paints are supreme

Yes Markus looking forward to your NZ paints

[Ian Warren]

It maybe only the RNZAF F-27 with the current progress here and everyone zipping in getting the others done.

[SA227]

It would be risky operating a 100/500 in lockout all the time and probably in contravention of the flight manual. Is/was this procedure endorsed by Fokker do you know? Of course I was off the F27 by 1992 though and this may effect my reasoning on it. Brave crew to test a sudden prop failure...or was it gradually reduced thru 32 degrees? There may well be a difference.

Can't comment on the 100 series as I never flew it but yes operating in lock-out all the time on the 500 is fully endorsed by Fokker and Rolls Royce and is in the flight manual. The STC cost you USD2500.00 in 1992

Other innovations enjoyed by us modern 2 motor Fokker drivers include, "high speed" flap with 16 degrees available at 177kts and Flap 26 landings. I believe Air NZ had neither?

When we flew NAO we still used the Flap 16 at 144kts because that particular flight manual hadn't been amended and nobody wanted to fork out the $20K for the paperwork.

Also we are operating the engines in the cruise at a max of 735 degrees TGT and not 755. We have seen a 4% decrease in fuel burns with the same TAS.