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Screenshot Competition - Discussion

https://www.nzff.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=9814

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:51 am
by Adamski
Note to MOD: I tried to add this to the April thread, but it's been pinned/locked. Maybe there's another thread for this, but I couldn't find it winkyy.gif ... please move this if you know where it is!

1) The April winner is a stunner. A well deserved win (even if it wasn't the one I voted for LOL).

2) I wanted to see how the April one went before forming my opinion and then sounding off (!).

OK ... so here goes ...

Basically, I think the comp is [now] inherently unfair: favouring the people with access to high-end digital cameras, access to aircraft for A2A flights, know someone "in the business", or simply have enough money to travel by air. Yes, I know access to all of those won't make necessarily make you a good photographer, but how can anyone that has access to *none* of the above mentioned hope to compete with stunning shots like the April winner? Simply put, I don't think it's a level playing field.

One of the great things about MSFS (and NZFF) is that it allows all of us (including those of us that are cash-strapped and earth-bound) to *dream* of the things we would like to be able to see (or afford to do) ... but most of our money goes on buying the next super-computer to run MSFS at more than 5 fps. Whilst (I'd guess) that only a small proportion of NZFF'ers work in the aviation industry, most of us have access to a flight sim - and are in a position to take perfectly decent screenshots with a combination of luck, skill and patience - even without spending $$$$'s on add-ons.

I've always enjoyed entering the competitions - and have always been amazed at the quality of screenshots, produced with (more or less) the same software and equipment that I have. There are hundreds of aviation [pic] related sites all over the Internet brimming with superb images, but what makes NZFF unique (IMHO) is that it encourages us to get the most out of an [already] amazing flight sim - through friendly banter of competitions etc.

Don't get me wrong - according to the rules, I think Ace's shot is a beauty (no question!). Also - this isn't a whinge or a whine ... just a comment. I still love NZFF wub.gif

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:56 am
by happytraveller
I tend to agree with this logic, but my comment would be that as NZFF is a SIMULATION site, then we should focus on screenshots from simulators.

The winning photo is great, but I would have preferred a stunning screenshot instead. Lots of good aviation forums for real world shots, so let us concentrate on the simulated ones.

Smooth landings (simulated).

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:11 am
by Ian Warren
I pay big to buy a camera to run flight simulator to the spec were I get shot that looks just like a screen shot laugh.gif WHOOPS biggrin.gif I pay big , to buy a computer to make my screens shots look like a real photo thumbup1.gif Cooooool ! thats better .

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:19 am
by waka172rg
Ian Warren wrote:
QUOTE (Ian Warren @ May 6 2009, 02:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I pay big to buy a camera to run flight simulator to the spec were I get shot that looks just like a screen shot laugh.gif WHOOPS biggrin.gif I pay big , to buy a computer to make my screens shots look like a real photo thumbup1.gif Cooooool ! thats better .


Ian said it all!!! thats y i joined as real pilot but this is my/your flightsim site rolleyes.gif

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 2:28 am
by Adamski
Ian Warren wrote:
QUOTE (Ian Warren @ May 6 2009, 02:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I pay big to buy a camera to run flight simulator to the spec were I get shot that looks just like a screen shot laugh.gif WHOOPS biggrin.gif I pay big , to buy a computer to make my screens shots look like a real photo thumbup1.gif Cooooool ! thats better .

biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif biggrin.gif

Ian, you're a poet!

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:17 am
by waka172rg
whathesaid.gif

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:04 am
by toprob
QUOTE
This month we've decided to do things a little differently- just as a trial, but if the topic proves successful, we may run it again in the future.[/quote]

That's from the April comp intro -- so don't worry, we won't get rid of the screenshot comp. However, since it has to be counted as a success, based on the number of entries, I wouldn't be surprised if a real-world-photo theme turned up again, just to mix things up.

The screenshot comp has always been the subject of discussions regarding fairness, and frankly, I don't think that most of them are really thought through. I've been in photography for long enough to know that an expensive camera has absolutely no bearing on the quality of the photography it produces. I know a guy who could take shots with a pin-hole camera made out of a shoebox, and walk away with a good percentage of top honours in everything he enters.

In a way, this particular theme redressed some of the inherent unfairness of the ongoing SS comp, in that it allowed a different range of skills to be used, and therefore it gave a few different folk the chance to take the prize. I was a bit wary of the theme myself, but seeing some new names on some of the entries made it a good choice. With screenshots, we normally get the same handful of people entering, and as time goes on others are less-inclined to have a go, simply because the same people appear to be winning in a fairly steady rotation.

There's only one real aspect which gives someone an unfair advantage in these competitions, and that's a passion for what they are doing.

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:28 am
by Chairman
toprob wrote:
QUOTE (toprob @ May 6 2009, 04:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've been in photography for long enough to know that an expensive camera has absolutely no bearing on the quality of the photography it produces. I know a guy who could take shots with a pin-hole camera made out of a shoebox, and walk away with a good percentage of top honours in everything he enters.


If I could move this away from aircraft photography for a moment ...

Say your friend is at a speedway track. There's a competition on to get the best action picture. He's sitting right next to the fence with a point'n'squirt camera with a 3x optical zoom and a flash with a guide number of about 5 which he can't disable. Every time he tries to take a picture the camera thinks Ooh, it's dark, we'll use the flash, and cranks the shutter speed up and the aparture down accordingly, and gives him a lovely shot of whatever is about 6 feet in front of him. It should be 10-15 feet, but the flash reflects off of the fence and stuffs up the exposure. Now, if something spectacular happened in front of him, and if it didn't throw up a cloud of dust for the flash to bounce off and wash the picture out, and if he saw it coming and pressed the shutter button at just the right time for the p'n's shutter lag to fire the camera at the exact right second, and if the exposure fluked it right, and if the thing stayed 6 feet in front of him while the camera took the picture, then yes he could win.

Meanwhile, here's me out in the infield with my DSLR with a real flash and a fast zoom.

(click)



(click)



(click)



(click)



(click)





There are guys with much older crappier cameras than mine who take photos that put mine to shame. There's no argument about it - the camera has very little to do with it. What matters is Location, Location, Location.

It is possible that your mate sitting behind the fence with his point n squirt will win the best action photo competition. Possible, but not likely, no matter how passionate he is about it. My position on the infield with nothing except my speedlight between my lens and the action really stacks the odds in my favour. It's all about Location, Location, Location. Those who can get it have a huge advantage over those who can't.

That's the point that Adamski was making.

Right, you can go back to talking about planes now smile.gif
Gary

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:17 am
by pilot.masman
if you ARE at the fence and want a close up to put into the comp all you do is zooom zoooom. but with zoom you get distortion and the like, so people who have access to that area are always gonna get better photos than those who sit at the fence sad.gif i dont really mind, i hardly ever enter for fear of shaming myself tongue.gif

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 7:55 am
by creator2003
Its already been said in this topic already so i wont go on ,this comp was a goodie lots of entrys and for a change i didnt get one vote at all, im really over the moon at the winners shot and it really looks good up there making im sure all of us proud ,, Nice one ACE


one thing id like to see is the topic of the last screenshot open to post congrats to the winners of the comps ,each time someone has won id really like to congrats them on it but id always have to start a new topic to do so" IDEA leave it open for a short time "

last comments ,,NZFF is No1 for its diversity not for narrow mindedness thats what makes us stand out from the rest ,i think we should keep it that way ....

opinion, now of to work dry.gif

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:21 am
by Alex
It is a very awesome shot, congratulations Ace.

Given how this competition has gone, I'd be in favour of running something similar a couple of times a year. smile.gif

Alex

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:42 am
by Naki
Not a photographer myself and only have a point and shoot .. I agree with Alex that this could be run once or twice a year...or maybe a completey seperate comp.

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:43 am
by Njbb1995
A separate comp sounds like a good idea, but it would double the workload of Mods and Prizes. I would be all for it though!

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 11:52 am
by Alex
I don't envisage the real-world competitions as monthly events. More as a 'breather' from the regular screenshot competition to shake things up a little every now and then...

Thats my idea anyway.

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:58 pm
by dbcunnz
Ok to have my ##### on this subject just what does the NZFF stand for I always thought it was NZ Flightsim Forum but it looks like I am wrong as over the last 12 months or so it seems to have gone off track a bit.
We now have car racing motorcycle racing plus many more topics that have nothing what so ever to with flight sim or for that matter anything to do with flying.
If it is all to do about aviation then maybe the name should be changed to the NZ Aviation Forum.
I would like to see it retained as a mainly Flight Sim Forum with a little of the real world aviation news but all other topics not related to aviation should would be far better placed somewhere else.

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:17 pm
by Chairman
They are placed somewhere else - in their own very explicitly named forums e.g. "Off Topic" laugh.gif

BTW I too think this competition made a nice change, and picking just one entry to vote for wasn't easy, but we wouldn't want to do it every month. There are plenty of sites that have regular competitions for photos of real planes, some like airliners.net have the daily rankings, we should (mainly) stick to flightSIM for the competitions. But this one was neat smile.gif

Cheers
Gary

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:00 pm
by toprob
dbcunnz wrote:
QUOTE (dbcunnz @ May 6 2009, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Ok to have my ##### on this subject just what does the NZFF stand for I always thought it was NZ Flightsim Forum but it looks like I am wrong as over the last 12 months or so it seems to have gone off track a bit.
We now have car racing motorcycle racing plus many more topics that have nothing what so ever to with flight sim or for that matter anything to do with flying.
If it is all to do about aviation then maybe the name should be changed to the NZ Aviation Forum.
I would like to see it retained as a mainly Flight Sim Forum with a little of the real world aviation news but all other topics not related to aviation should would be far better placed somewhere else.


Managing the direction of the forum is very tricky, as there is a very wide range of directions we could take. Some forums are very strict on the content, others are a free-for-all, but NZFF is somewhere in the middle. We've been around for a while now, and have moved towards a community, so within that community some members are going to have similar, off-topic interests, and the off-topic forums are a good place for them to hang out.

Sometimes I get annoyed when the off-topic thread outnumbers the others, and then I'd be inclined to step in to keep the 'flightsim' theme. However stepping in may just require supporting the on-topic threads, and encouraging others to do the same.

But ultimately a community forum needs to serve the community, so if members want more specific FS content then it's up to them to supply it. If not, then it becomes a watered down chat room, which may not suit everyone, but it may be ideal for the active members who are left. Certainly I have very little interest in the off-topic threads.

I know that there's been a conscious effort by some members to open the forum up to more real world aviation topics. This may be one way to go if there's less interest in the hard-core FS topics, but even then that wouldn't work for everyone. I love the FS discussions, but pretty much ignore most off-topic and real-world-aviation related posts, except that I have to read everything in case moderation is required.

The April comp was a bit of a test of the interest in this, so this is a good thread to have your say on this particular direction. But it's no good saying that we should be FS-only, if nobody is interested in keeping FS well and truly alive here.

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 3:59 pm
by spongebob206
Yes we are FS, but a change every now and then is good.

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 4:26 pm
by creator2003
I do like these topics tongue.gif it really gets some outta of the wood work ,some good old NZFF spirt..
this forum is 90% flightsim content and always has been from the early days ,i do like seeing real world stuff on here for like repaints "fs" ideas of scenery fs and i do like hearing about my peers lives , what makes them come this way, how they got there intrests ,jobs they do and general chit chat while the new addons are getting made etc ...
like some have said i just dont read all sections but if something catches my eyes ,ill have a look and im not any worst off am i ..

this forum has grown from a little seed and now is a daily stop for alot of designers hobbies and many more that like the content here for whatever topics they like to read .

this comp id have to say again wasent a bad thing its only good to have the change every now and again ,like after 30 odd fs comps what is really wrong with this if it caters to those members who normally dont enter because of whatever reasons

there really hasent been any damage just learning here ..
my favorite saying is "CHANGE IS A EVERYDAY EVENT "so we just get on with it ..

im watching this topic hard today even though i should be working ,i just get a real kick out of seeing a topic take off like this one has laugh.gif

Yeah ha the good old NZFF spirt is alive and kicking welcome back ...lol

PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 5:17 pm
by spongebob206
whathesaid.gif

Words of wisdom Mike, Thanks.
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