get some scenery rolling

[Christian]

Given that Ian has taken charge in organising a first compilation of scenery, I wanted to create a new topic where we can get this organised. All discussion around that here please.

Apart from Ian's scenery, I will offer some of mine (Te Anau airport and some AFCADs). I think we should also get Charl's AI AFCADs, Lawries stuff, Robin's old stuff if he's happy to donate that, get Peter Lohr on board and get his stuff, get Creator2003's Hamilton. My & Richard's airspace, Timmo's photoreal stuff if that's possible. Anything else?

Big question: How are we going to distribute, test, upload, etc?

And, to Ian's horror I suspect ( ), we need another volunteer - someone who would write a simple install manual. I for one don't really have the time to muck around for hours to get a first install done...

Christian

[toprob]

I'm happy to include Timaru, Tekapo and Kaikoura airfields, but I'll have to do some work on them first. Also any freeware Godzone photo scenery, if that sort of thing is suitable. I may also be motivated to produce one or two freeware airports in 2008.

Paraparaumu has a separate status, being a 'Real NZ' project, but once the FS2004 version is complete I will include that as well.

I'm prepared to support the project, but there are some issues with my status -- to stay with scenery design, I need to continue to make a living from it. I have no idea how this will work out, but I am thinking positively at the moment:) I am aware that a VOZ NZ would impact badly on my business, and there's no reason to believe that this won't either.

Also, there are a number of reasons why I mainly work on my own. If I had a report card, it would read 'does not play well with others.' This is mainly because I have my own long-term plan, and my own views on how to get there. Working on my own means that I don't have to compromise any more than I have do to keep it financially viable. Having said, that, though, I have worked with Ian, we are friends, and we live in the same city, so I would like to offer my services producing a manual.

For those who are interested in how I produce scenery, there are a number of tutorials on my site which give some insight into what I am trying to do. I am happy to expand on these tutorials for the benefit of the project.

I also offer my existing distribution facilities (CD/DVD production, CC processing, the Godzone Store) if it is considered advantageous to distribute via CD/DVD. However I need to make it clear upfront that this would be part of the business -- and would be charged as such. For instance, it may be that a CD or DVD of the whole project may cost $20 to cover the production and business costs. In return, you get a working distribution system, quality control, speedy and dedicated service.

[Charl]

I've been mindful of both Christian's and Robin's position in all this - big of you to chip in here Robin - but I think it could be turned to the advantage of the payware pushers too.
In a sense GNZLAP has already done this, by exposing over a thousand users to the NZ scene, with liberal references of what's available here (including payware).
This project could do the same, by a kind of osmosis, and I don't imagine anyone here would object to the implied marketing.

Here are some AFCADs which are donated from GNZLAP: (we just need a place to put them now!)
NZAG GNZLAP
NZAS GNZLAP
NZBA GNZLAP
NZCB GNZLAP
NZCH GNZLAP
NZFJ GNZLAP
NZGC GNZLAP
NZGM GNZLAP
NZGT GNZLAP
NZGY GNZLAP
NZHR GNZLAP
NZKF GNZLAP
NZKI GNZLAP
NZKM GNZLAP
NZLX GNZLAP
NZMF GNZLAP
NZMO GNZLAP
NZMW GNZLAP
NZMY GNZLAP
NZNE GNZLAP
NZOH GNZLAP
NZOP GNZLAP
NZOU GNZLAP
NZPN GNZLAP
NZPP GNZLAP
NZQW GNZLAP
NZRC GNZLAP
NZRT GNZLAP
NZRV GNZLAP
NZTO GNZLAP
NZTT GNZLAP
NZTU GNZLAP
NZTZ GNZLAP
NZUN GNZLAP
NZVL GNZLAP
NZVO GNZLAP
NZWB GNZLAP
NZWF GNZLAP
NZWK GNZLAP
NZWL GNZLAP
NZWN GNZLAP
NZWO GNZLAP
NZTL GNZLAP
NZAR GNZLAP
NZAP GNZLAP
NZGS GNZLAP
NZHN GNZLAP
NZHS GNZLAP
NZKK GNZLAP
NZKO GNZLAP
NZKT GNZLAP
NZMA GNZLAP
NZMK GNZLAP
NZNP GNZLAP
NZNR GNZLAP
NZOX GNZLAP
NZPM GNZLAP
NZTH GNZLAP
NZTN GNZLAP
NZWU GNZLAP
NZWV GNZLAP
NZCX GNZLAP
NZGB GNZLAP
NZTA GNZLAP

The following are not in the public domain for various reasons, and you'd have to make your own:
NZA1 N
NZAA N
NZAH N
NZDA N
NZDN N
NZDV N
NZFI N
NZHB N
NZHK N
NZKP N
NZMC N
NZME N
NZMS N
NZNS N
NZNV N
NZOM N
NZQN N
NZRA N
NZRO N
NZRU N
NZSD N
NZTG N
NZTI N
NZTM N
NZWP N
NZWR N
NZWS N
NZWT N
NZYP N

These are in use as dummies, waypoints etc for various AI projects in NZ.
Don't use these numbers:
NZO1 CDT
NZO2 CDT
NZO3 CDT
NZO4 CDT
NZO4 CDT
NZO5 CDT
NZO7 CDT
NZO8 CDT
NZOA CDT
NZ01 Wgtn Ferry
NZ02 Wgtn Ferry
NZ03 Wgtn Ferry
NZ04 Wgtn Ferry
NZ05 Bluebridge Picton
NZ06 Bluebridge Wellington
NZ07 PICTON FISHING Boat
NZ08 PICTON Cargo Port
NZ09 Wellington Pilot Boat
NZ10 WELLINGTON Cargo Port
NZ11 WELLINGTON FISHING
NZ12 PICTON Cargo Port
NZ13 Picton Pilot Boat
NZ14 Picton Cargo Pilot Boat
NZ15 Picton Cargo Pilot boat
NZ21 CDT
NZ22 CDT
NZ24 CDT
NZ25 CDT
NZ26 CDT
NZ27 CDT
NZ28 CDT
NZ31 CDT
NZ32 CDT
NZ33 CDT
NZ34 CDT
NZ35 CDT
NZ36 CDT
NZ37 CDT
NZ38 CDT
NZ39 CDT
NZ41 CDT
NZ42 CDT
NZ43 CDT
NZ51 CDT
NZ52 CDT
NZ53 CDT
NZ54 CDT
NZ55 CDT
NZ56 CDT
NZ61 CDT
NZ62 CDT
NZ63 CDT
NZ64 CDT
NZ72 CDT
NZ73 CDT
NZ74 CDT
NZ75 CDT
NZ76 CDT
NZ77 CDT
NZ78 CDT
NZ79 CDT
NZ80 CDT
NZ80 CDT
NZ81 CDT
NZ81 CDT
NZ82 CDT
NZ82 CDT
NZ83 CDT
NZ84 CDT
NZ85 CDT
NZ86 CDT
NZ87 CDT
NZ88 CDT
NZ89 CDT
nz95 CDT
nz97 CDT
nz98 CDT
nz99 CDT
N100 - N143 Tracy Henry Wellington Boats

Finally, here's a list of helipads - no AFCADs at this time
NZAL "“ Avalon Heliport "“ Lower Hutt, Wellington
NZBC "“ ASB Bank Centre Heliport "“ Auckland
NZBW "“ Burwood Hospital Heliport "“ Christchurch
NZDC "“ Dunedin City Heliport "“ Dunedin
NZDH "“ Dunedin Hospital Heliport "“ Dunedin
NZFF
NZGI "“ Garden City Heliport "“ Christchurch
NZHT
NZJA "“ Tauranga Hospital Heliport "“ Tauranga
NZJC "“ Christchurch Hospital Heliport "“ Christchurch
NZJE "“ Dargaville Hospital Heliport "“ Dargaville
NZJG "“ Gisborne Hospital Heliport "“ Gisborne
NZJH "“ Hastings Hospital Heliport "“ Hastings
NZJI "“ Bay of Islands Heliport "“ Kerikeri
NZJK "“ Kaitaia Hospital Heliport "“ Kaitaia
NZJL "“ Auckland Hospital Heliport "“ Auckland
NZJM "“ Palmerston North Hospital Heliport "“ Palmerston North
NZJO "“ Rotorua Hospital Heliport "“ Rotorua
NZJQ "“ Taranaki Base Hospital Heliport "“ New Plymouth
NZJR "“ Whangarei Hospital Heliport "“ Whangarei
NZJS "“ Southland/Kew Hospital Heliport "“ Invercargill
NZJT "“ Taumarunui Hospital Heliport "“ Taumarunui
NZJU "“ Wanganui Hospital Heliport "“ Wanganui
NZJY "“ Wairoa Hospital Heliport "“ Wairoa
NZJZ "“ Taupo Hospital Heliport "“ Taupo
NZMB "“ Mechanics Bay Heliport "“ Auckland
NZMH "“ Masterton Hospital Heliport "“ Masterton
NZNH "“ Nelson Hospital Heliport "“ Nelson
NZP1
NZPA "“ Paihia Heliport "“ Paihia
NZPH
NZQW "“ Queens Wharf Heliport "“ Wellington
NZRI
NZUK
NZW1
NZWG
NZWH "“ Wellington Hospital Heliport "“ Wellington
NZWM

If anybody is still with us, my earlier post about standards applies:
20m mesh (+topo) or else your AI will float or sink, or worse!

[LMerraine]

Personally, but just personally, I think if we're making this freeware, we need to make sure it works with the freeware mesh etc, and not just for the people that have the payware "base"

[Charl]

Well, that was my point at the start - these are 20m mesh and available, anyone wants to remake them for the freeware, go for it.
There wasn't time or inclination within GNZLAP for that, so we had to make some choices - HTAI models which are 50% of GNZLAP are also not free - simply the best.

[Timmo]

Certainly all the stuff that ive made (custom buildings etc) will be fine to use....I will need to double check about the photoreal aerials etc (are these even part of the scope of the project?) but it should be OK as long as it remains FREE.

[greaneyr]

From my side of things, the airspace update needs to be modified slightly to workaround some undesirable behaviours in the way FS handles it. My AFCAD guide talks a lot about the balance between technical accuracy versus behavioural accuracy. For example, the upper airspace update doesn't kick in until 9500ft, for the simple reason that this is where the sectors start in real life. Only problem is, FS's default "New Zealand Center" kicks in at surface level, so there are times when you get handed off from a real center over to good ol' New Zealand Center again. The only way to beat this is to lower the airspace floor so it kicks in at surface level. Not authentic accuracy, but more desirable behaviour all the same - which is what we're after.

I'm happy to model some of those AFCADs listed as not being in the public domain.

Just a thought re the heliports. How far (approximately) around the helipad are we going to want custom buildings? Hospital helipads aren't much without a hospital, for example.

[Charl]

QUOTE (greaneyr @ Jan 15 2008, 03:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm happy to model some of those AFCADs listed as not being in the public domain.

Cool. I listed all the airports and numbers just so they're out there for all to see.
Some of them ie NZRO NZTG NZWN NZWB NZPN NZWF work only for RealNZ.
I guess the rule is, if there's a scenery, there'll be an AFCAD for it.
Everything starts and ends with the airport list.
So one would track an airport under these headers:

QUOTE

Just a thought re the heliports. How far (approximately) around the helipad are we going to want custom buildings? Hospital helipads aren't much without a hospital, for example.[/quote]
There'd be a key building at least.
Mike did a nice one for Whangerei.
Problem arises with AI and AFCAD - I ruined downtown Auckland for 100's of users by plopping an AFCAD on the ASB tower for AI helos.
The scenery grew a giant moleheap, right there.

[Christian]

@ Robin

While I'm not sure what will happen, I agree with Charl that this project will have a positive, not negative impact on payware. The reason is exposure. Currently, maybe 10% of simmers are aware of scenery (if) and maybe 2-5% interested in flying in NZ. A project like this will increase exposure and interest. The freeware VOZ has been downloaded 500,000 times! A payware add-on version of Melbourne airport is in the top 10 most popular scenery add-ons at fspilotshop. Orbx is leveraging the freeware VOZ and producing a host of payware and they need to make a whole lot of sales to get their current expenses in. The freeware VOZ is great, but it's not like the airports reach RealNZ quality. That's your market gap

Besides, not sure if I put this under the 'law' section, but as a payware contributor you should have the right to advertise the fact that you support this project. I envision that payware developer should be able to display 'support' logos on the main website.

@ Richard

I've made a whole lot of afcads s well. Before you dive in, I should make them available - once we have some space...

Christian

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Christian @ Jan 15 2008, 04:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

While I'm not sure what will happen, I agree with Charl that this project will have a positive, not negative impact on payware. The reason is exposure. Currently, maybe 10% of simmers are aware of scenery (if) and maybe 2-5% interested in flying in NZ. A project like this will increase exposure and interest.

You know, NZ comes up a lot on 'dangerous airports' sites (eg sites detailing airports that are challenging to fly into). It also comes up a lot for a place that's just stunning to fly in without needing a huge number of natural wonders. I think there could be a lot of worldwide interest for this reason.

[ardypilot]

If you want, you can use my 'breast cancer' pink coloured texture file for the REAL NZ Auckland skytower (breast_cancer_skytower.zip at avsim) -my only 'scenery addon' contribution I've ever made..

[HardCorePawn]

QUOTE (Charl @ Jan 15 2008, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There'd be a key building at least.
Mike did a nice one for Whangerei.
Problem arises with AI and AFCAD - I ruined downtown Auckland for 100's of users by plopping an AFCAD on the ASB tower for AI helos.
The scenery grew a giant moleheap, right there.

Well I'm not sure if it would work for AI, but I created the hardened platform to sit on top of the ASB tower (AKL hospital and Mechanics Bay too), and also defined it as an 'airport' using an xml file... it showed up in list of airports within the FS menus, GPS etc. and you could choose them as your starting location etc. so I assume AI would be able to find it...

it also meant you did not get the gigantic molehill rising up out of the terrain...

would be worth testing...

[LMerraine]

Just as another aside for the payware etc, I would love to see that the freeware side of it has the basic airport - but that the project is setup so that it's easy to disable areas so that the payware versions can drop in, without any major reworking. That's often been a problem where scenery is specific for a specific scenery - if we can find a way to make it easy for the user to pick and choose.

Again, I don't know the nuts and bolts, but yeah