Getting a CPL in Auckland, job prospects?

[acheron]

I am considering going to Ardmore to gain my CPL. As we all know pilot training isn't cheap, and I'm already in the minus with a $10k student loan from my previous enterprise, a diploma in film and TV production. I do wish I wasn't such a useless dreamer.

I realize that should I graduate successfully I'd be in all probability building up my hours as an instructor at first, but beyond that, what kind of job prospects would a fresh graduate have? And as an instructor, how much would I be making? I'd go and ask at an interview at Ardmore, but I think they'd just tell me what I want to hear, I'm really looking for a no bull and realistic answer.

Many thanks

[pois0n]

New C cat instructors get like $12-14/hr

[benwynn]

Lol, I read somewhere Solomon Islands Air offering a FO job on the Twotter with free accomodation and meals, for something like $12000 Australian dollars per annum

You might be better off doing CPL and what not, then going out back Aus, or into PNG/Indonesia. Some good jobs with low hours going on up their I believe.

[pacblue]

Instructors money is not the best but most instructors i know are all there purely to build their hours and it looks good on the C.V, my instructor told me he would have to be an instructor for a good couple of years before he would apply at an Airline though hope this helps.

[acheron]

QUOTE (pacblue @ Jan 5 2009, 05:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Instructors money is not the best but most instructors i know are all there purely to build their hours and it looks good on the C.V, my instructor told me he would have to be an instructor for a good couple of years before he would apply at an Airline though hope this helps.

From my understanding it's worthless to try any airlines until you have your ATPL. And then some.

I was thinking of jobs like flying small scenic tours, sky divers, or whatever. I could arrange to go for a CPL at Ardmore, but I have no idea what I'd be left with after graduation, which is the one and single thing holding me back at the moment. I know I'd f'n love to fly, and even if it takes a long time to pay back the student loan, it'd still be worth it for me. But not if after spending $70k to gain a CPL the only job I'd get is an administrator on an office or checking in passengers.

[A185F]

QUOTE (acheron @ Jan 5 2009, 10:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From my understanding it's worthless to try any airlines until you have your ATPL. And then some.

I was thinking of jobs like flying small scenic tours, sky divers, or whatever. I could arrange to go for a CPL at Ardmore, but I have no idea what I'd be left with after graduation, which is the one and single thing holding me back at the moment. I know I'd f'n love to fly, and even if it takes a long time to pay back the student loan, it'd still be worth it for me. But not if after spending $70k to gain a CPL the only job I'd get is an administrator on an office or checking in passengers.

Well acheron (and welcome to the forum btw),
times are tough in aviation at the moment. Jobs are few and far between. On the other side, by the time you actually get your CPL, things might be back up again, who knows. Over time though, there will definitely be a serious shortage of pilots. Perhaps not in the very near future but I would say in the next 5-10 years for sure. 2007 and well the first half of 2008 was huge in terms of employment, as an example, from the top where there are multiple carriers with huge orders of widebodied jets. They all need people to fly them so pilots were recruited from medium jets (who also are in huge expantion mode) who in turn needed pilots so recruited from turboprops who in turn recruited from GA etc etc. It can be simplified as one big ladder so when the guys at the top benifit, everybody on the ladder does. Unfortunately in the last 6 months or so the recruitment has pretty much come to one big screeching halt. In a lot of cases thousands of pilots even lost their jobs due to massive cutbacks and airline closures. I was one. However, there are still these huge aircraft orders to be filled (and flown) and in general the aviation industry is only ever growing, as it pretty much always has. So it will definitely pick back up again and the rush will be bigger than ever before. Its just a question of when exactly.

As for types of first jobs, well there's instructing,- where you would stay shielded by the same ideas, types and methods of flying,- and, there's everything else. What I would call the "real world" of GA.
Instructing is probably the easiest (although most expensive) way of getting hours, albeit not very good hours, still numbers in the book. There are generally more instructing jobs than others but even then they can sometimes be very difficult to get.

If the industry stays the way it is, a problem you may face could well be, well, Auckland (ducks and Shields himself from the theory class books being thrownby the local jafas). It is a big place with lots of people with fark all GA out side of flight training (by comparison, say). A big problem in the past has been competition,- with the group of others learning to fly with you. With the few (if any) jobs available at the end of the course everyone is trying to get them and those who don't are left looking for other work. I know a few guys who were in this situation a few years ago, went and got jobs at Mc maccers and the such, got uncurrent, then very uncurrent, then never flew again. (although one now is a manager at a mc maccities is Auck, the other though spent a fortune getting back into it after a few years in the 07 boom and last I heard was carting freight in the north of oz, with no regrets.) And they are by far not the only ones.
As another e.g, a few years ago CAC would have all these people (after jumping through hoops and interviews and all that rubbish) get onto an instructor course, then with only 1 or 2, (if they were lucky) get some work. Then again in 08 I heard they couldn't even fill some courses (even when giving everyone jobs at the end).
I only hope that it hasn't completely turned back to the was it was a few years ago.

If you can choose, (which a fair amount of people can't) get out and have a look around at different training organisations. The best places are small organisations (like a aero/flying club if you can) where you are more of an individual rather than one of a group. Somewhere where you may perhaps be the only one going through their cpl at the time and not with a bunch of others, and meet lots of good-to-know people who could be handy when it comes to job hunting. Get some varied experience in types of flying/aircraft etc whilst doing your training, all to help so you become more of an individual rather than just another sausage from the factory once you get your licence.
Then, if it's your thing, you may end up getting a job carting tourists around our beautiful scenery, or charters, or freight etc etc and seriously have a ball and learn a lot about flying,- because thats really where the learning begins.

On the other hand, you could go to a big organisation, spend heaps, get your instructor ticket and be lucky enough to be employed by the outfit that taught you and pass on the same tradition while sitting as a weight in the right hand seat talking instead of flying, stuck in the same environment repeating the same stuff and not really getting out and experiencing the great GA.
For a lot of people, that floats their boat. A simple structured ladder into the airlines, don't really care about what the rest GA has to offer. And fair enough too, it works and works well for heaps of people.
I know one guy (some of you may know him as well) who did that at a small club like organisation and went through the system at rocket speed. He started learning to fly at this small place that was pretty much just starting out, must have been early 06 got his PPL, did his cpl and instrument rating (was basically guaranteed a job as an instructor) maybe late 06, C-cat early 07, B Cat mid 07, by mid 08 was Starting at Air Nelson. Now flys the dash 8 around and in time off flys an L-29 jet. That progression to me is super sonic. Was just lucky to be at the right places at the right times and met the right people. And good on him, well deserved, put in a heck of a lot of hard work (and money) and now where he wants to be.

But yea over all times are tough but they will get better. If you want a career in aviation bad enough, you will get it.
I'm not too up with the play on the current instructor situation in nz anymore but there are one or two resident ardmore instructors in the forum who can help you out with info in that respect.

Good luck with your decision making !

[HercFeend]

I always find this questions very interesting, you hear it all the time. Its similar to ‘ I’ve just finished uni with an IT qualification’ what are my prospects? Aviation is basically no different to many other industries. It’s not just about what you have its what you bring and what you want to get out of it all that are equally, if not more important. Yes you will require a lot of training, qualifications and hours, gained though various means but you will, like applying for any other job, have to have the personality, people skills, likability, etc etc etc that makes you employable. There is also the question of what your goals are also, do you want to instruct, charter, crop, jets, cargo, military....the list is endless (ish). There are aviation jobs out there of course but whether you get one or not is not just down to if you have the qualifications, it’s down to you.

As a note, with regard to a future in aviation just google ‘pilot shortage’ and read any of the pages of articles predicating a shortage of tens of thousands of pilots for the foreseeable future. There are various reasons listed for this from industry growth to the mass aging and impending retirement of a lot of the worlds senior pilots. It’s not all doom and gloom out there and whatever slow down there might be in the short term due to this ‘global downturn’, it will be well over before most of us are in a position to be looking at airlines! And if it’s not....we’ll all have bigger fish to fry by then!!!!

[acheron]

Many thanks for the replies