Bombardier launches C series

[Naki]

See here. It will be competing against the smaller 737 and A320 models along with the Embraer 190/195. Maybe Air NZ could get these to replace the 737s together with an order for Q400s to replace the ATRs (bulk/launch order discount??)????

[beaufighterguy]

Looks nice but why would Air New Zealand get them to replace the 733's?
Why not just get the new one's or more A320's is the way I see it.
Boeing haven't really let them down in the past why change?

[Daniel]

They certainly look pretty cool.
Air NZ may well get some of these to run services into areas that can't quite take a 737 very well.
I still think that Air NZ should stay with Boeing as well. However the new 737s are really expensive at the moment.
They are in hot demand.

[Anthony]

The C series does look pretty good.
The 737s that Air NZ have aren't the latest or greatest (737s are great, but you know what I mean) the oldest start coming up to replacement age in around 2012.
The C series are also likely to be better in short field performance, weight etc making them good to get into places the 737 can't - like Daniel said.
Air New Zealand might even be able to get a good deal on the C series, with the Air Nelson order and if Mount Cook get Q400s.

737s are a great aircraft and they're in demand, although some -800 slots have come up for sale recently apparently. I'd like to see the 737 stay in Air NZs fleet.

[creator2003]

Hey thats a sharp looker ,really nice now we just need a sim model

[Yak52aholic]

I think I'm in love

FS9 model here:
http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID...amp;DLID=108513

FSX version here:
http://library.avsim.net/esearch.php?CatID...amp;DLID=108512

[Ian Warren]

freight load would the big question maybe , that looks more fashioned for the large hub operators who have specfic cargo types , that was another requirement within NZ

[Naki]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Jul 14 2008, 02:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

freight load would the big question maybe , that looks more fashioned for the large hub operators who have specfic cargo types , that was another requirement within NZ

Yes I guess that would be an issue - I have read somewhere that there is a 40% lower fuel burn over the 737-300 - if that was the case and I was an airline executive I would be looking hard at this one. The C Series has new engines from Pratt & Whitney GTFs (Geared Turbo Fan)

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE

The C Series has new engines from Pratt & Whitney GTFs (Geared Turbo Fan)[/quote]

I have heard quite a bit about that and it makes aircraft alot more efficent.
If it has a 40% lower fuel burn than the 733's then it would look pretty attractive to Air NZ.
What would Air NZ look at if they were interested? The C110 or C130?

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Naki @ Jul 14 2008, 03:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I guess that would be an issue - I have read somewhere that there is a 40% lower fuel burn over the 737-300 - if that was the case and I was an airline executive I would be looking hard at this one. The C Series has new engines from Pratt & Whitney GTFs (Geared Turbo Fan)

Freight not PAX makes the money for airlines ... they did say how much better the 320 was in fuel savings ... WHOOPs .. snot always right

[Anthony]

Yep the geared turbo fan does look really good from an operator's perspective.
The only competition to the GTF looks to be the UDF (unducted fan?), which is a bit like a turboprop in some ways, especially looks but nowhere near as good as the GTF.

The GTf is also the engine on the MItsubishi regional jet. I think PW have a winner on their hands as the GTF looks like an excellent performer.
Pratt and Whitney are pushing the GTF versus Rolls Royce and GE who are behind the UDF.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Anthony @ Jul 14 2008, 05:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

UDF (unducted fan?),

30 years ago they were looking at and testing the UDF , found fuel was lesser , dynamic shape had to be changed to cut the sound ... idea for the future is to built HBP ratio at 13/14:1 rated at 50.000 lb stactic and change the design the conventional shape of aircraft rather than a used design , the fact is work need to be started on engine pre 2000 , then saying the panic was'nt on back then , but today ... oops

[benwynn]

Air NZ cant buy any more Airbus, they signed some agreement with Boeing saying they wouldnt

Reminds me of an Embraer, I hope they do buy some

[Daniel]

QUOTE (benwynn @ Jul 14 2008, 08:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Air NZ cant buy any more Airbus, they signed some agreement with Boeing saying they wouldnt

Reminds me of an Embraer, I hope they do buy some

Have they really signed an agreement with boeing that they can't get airbus'?
That is crazy! Shouldn't they keep their options open?
How long does the agreement go on for?

[benwynn]

Not sure, Im not even sure its true, its just what I have herd. I just think Boeing got a bit angry when they went out and bought the A320 instead of the new 737 NG, when they had a full boeing fleet!

[Kelburn]

Well doesn't Air NZ have a specialised 737 Maintenance facility in NZCH (So I think I was told)?

Also Boeing has been great and loyal and the 700 series 737 would be the way to go in my opinion (for starters all our airports that serve jets are made to serve 737's plus think of all the retraining plus there's the agreement with Boeing...)

Look at Qantas. They used to fly the 400 series domestically (in Aus) then recently upgraded to the 800 with half the fleet being 400's and half 800's and so far so good for them. Virgin Blue did the same (although they only had 400's for a short while) I doubt that Air NZ would go for the Bombardiers (although who am I to say I don't work for Air NZ)

Again I'd go for the 700's in the same way that the 300's were bought in on top of the 200's.

[Naki]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Jul 14 2008, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

30 years ago they were looking at and testing the UDF , found fuel was lesser , dynamic shape had to be changed to cut the sound ... idea for the future is to built HBP ratio at 13/14:1 rated at 50.000 lb stactic and change the design the conventional shape of aircraft rather than a used design , the fact is work need to be started on engine pre 2000 , then saying the panic was'nt on back then , but today ... oops

Hmm the unducted fan - tested on the MD-80 and 727 - wonder if it will be resurrected?

Air NZ signing an agreemnet not to buy Airbuses? - doesnt sound right to me.

My image above of the C series is bit out of date - heres a more recent one

[Daniel]

It looks quite similar to the 787
If Air NZ did replace the 733s with 737 NGs what models would be best for NZ?
They could get a say 12 737 700s and a few more 737 800s and put the larger ones on strong routes.
The 738's could also do international services and put capacity out of Wellington and Christchurch.
Kelburn raises some good points about Air NZ's maintanace at CHC and the retraining crews.
The pilot's love flying the 737s and they are a great aeroplane for New Zealand.
I hope they stay with Boeing as the new 737s with winglets look fantastic

[victor_alpha_charlie]

QUOTE (Daniel @ Jul 15 2008, 07:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

a few more 737 800s and put the larger ones on strong routes.
The 738's could also do international services and put capacity out of Wellington and Christchurch.

That's why ANZ have near-new A320s though.

[Anthony]

Yer I've heard about the agreement with Boeing too.
I think it was a memorandum of understanding that Air NZ would look to Boeing for future fleet purchases andpretty much give Airbus the skip.
I'm not sure that it actually happened, but it's possible that it did - American airlines like Delta have had longstanding 'gentleman's agreements' with Boeing about not purchasing Airbus as well.
In return, Boeing probably gave them a good deal on aircraft purchases, spares, replacements, etc and has offered to do the same in the future.
There was also a tie up between Boeing, Bombardier and Air NZ that partly resulted in the Q300 purchase if I remember correctly.