Who would You Accept???

[Kelburn]

Really it's who's more intelligent and who has more hours.

Remember the Air force also wouldn't be that exciting as you'd only specialize in one aircraft and then you'd only fly it maybe once every two days depending on the a/c.

I'd say that an ex-air force pilot wouldn't always get the job like I said:
it's who's more intelligent and who has more hours.
(I mean they're not going to hire an idiot with an IQ of 80 with 1500 hours from the air force over a Privately trained person who has an IQ of 110 with 2000 hours.

[ZKTOM]

I have to diasgree with that Kelburn. The airforce wouldn't hire an idiot with an IQ of 80. However I do agree with the Intelligence.

[Timmo]

Well i guess we all answer based on our experiences with the respective pilots. I would go ex-Airforce personally, they: Are trained to much much higher standards/tolerances than civvy pilots, they are psychologically screened, they are physically screened (i.e. Fitness), if they make a mistake they are 'out' (Check flights > Chop flights etc....in the private world, if you make a mistake its less of an issue) etc etc.

I dont agree about the risk taking comments about airforce pilots: The psychological screening makes sure the arent undue risk takers.

I guess it comes down to the fact that only certain people are let into the Airforce and only a subset of them actually get their wings. In the commercial sector, its almost a case of 'you want to be a pilot? show me the money'

[deaneb]

Well i guess we all answer based on our experiences with the respective pilots. I would go ex-Airforce personally, they: Are trained to much much higher standards/tolerances than civvy pilots, they are psychologically screened, they are physically screened (i.e. Fitness), if they make a mistake they are 'out' (Check flights > Chop flights etc....in the private world, if you make a mistake its less of an issue) etc etc.

I dont agree about the risk taking comments about airforce pilots: The psychological screening makes sure the arent undue risk takers.

I guess it comes down to the fact that only certain people are let into the Airforce and only a subset of them actually get their wings. In the commercial sector, its almost a case of 'you want to be a pilot? show me the money'

Whilst I am a groundie in the RNZAF and possibly biased in my opinion, I do believe that whether you would choose a civilian or military trained person, it will come down to experience and ability.

Timmo - you really hit the nail on the head with your comments. The RNZAF selection process certainly weeds out the people who won't cut the rigorous training, not forgetting the taxpayer is forking out almost 2 million bucks to get each pilot from zero to operational pilot on a Squadron. No student loans here !!! The RNZAF trains at 2 - 3 times the rate of commercial training, there is little room for people who can't hack the pace, you don't get many chances before you will be chopped. Some pilots have even been chopped the week they are due to graduate. In civilian training, I think almost anyone can learn to fly if they are given enough time and training and they have the money.

Then there is Kelburn's comment "Remember the Air force also wouldn't be that exciting as you'd only specialize in one aircraft and then you'd only fly it maybe once every two days depending on the a/c."

Are you kidding - military flying is some of the best to be had, pilots don't always stay with the same aircraft type, and often end up instructing on Airtrainers and Kingairs later in there careers. Most of there flying is not boring A to B and back again like civy airlines. The flying is varied and includes tactical flying, lots of low level, different airports (all over the world), airshows etc. And I don't see many large aircraft captains in civilian world who are in there late 20's or early thirties !!! I know many ex military pilots who have moved on to flying civil airliners who would kill to get back to military flying.

A good friend of mind (whom I joined the Air Force with) has been a military pilot for about 18 years. After getting his wings he started flying Hueys and later went on to fly C130's. About 6 years ago he left NZ to fly for the RAF, first with C130's and for the last couple of years Puma Helos, with many tours to Iraq on special Ops.
He and his family have decided to return to NZ, so he chucked in a few job applications and was suprised to get an interview with Air NZ. He flew out for a quick interview and a few days later out of the blue has got an offer as either first officer 737's or second officer 777's.
He decided on 737's. This is a dream job for many pilots, and he is stoked to be accepted, obviously his military career has paid dividends as the selection was pretty straight forward for him.
I look forward to seeing them later this year.

Once again - civil or military - it comes down to experience, but I believe many Military pilots (in NZ at least) will pack in more experience, variety and responsibility, than most equivalent time or aged civil pilot.

Deane

[towerguy]

Dean is right about the attrition rate.

on my intake there were about 500-600 applicants, only about 90 or so got to go to the 3 day selection camp of which they took about 25 of us split over 2 courses ( 12 and 13). Of that, only about 11 graduated (6,5). So that shows how rigorous the training is.

It was the same for ATC, about 300 applied, they took 12 of us, of which 5 graduated and there are only 4 of us left in the business now. Looking back and comparing the two courses I would have to say that the ATC was the more stressful even though it's the one I managed to get through.

When I went through my Civvy flying I met plenty of guys that would have been good enough to get though Airforce but just chose not to go that route and I met a lot of types that had parents with big cheque books but I wouldn't trust to operate an easy chair and TV remote. In Australia I even met a couple on 'affirmative action' scolarships paid by the government and they just kept on going until they eventually got through.

All of the above are now flying medium and large tin cans. When the chips are down I know exactly which of the above I'd want in command if they were carrying my family.

[Duckman]

Definately ex-air-force. They are incredibly diciplined and know how to handle an emergency. Also they would be more likeable and interesting as they have flown tonnes of planes and know how to have fun. I'm sorry Kelburn, but I don't know what you were taking when you effectively said Air-Force is boring with only one type of plane. I would always train through the air-Force, as I believe it would be way easier to get a job if "Air-Force Pilot" is stated on your CV

[ZKTOM]

Remember the Air force also wouldn't be that exciting as you'd only specialize in one aircraft and then you'd only fly it maybe once every two days depending on the a/c.

I stongly disagree with that one kelburn.

Heard of the NZSAS-New Zealand Special Air Service?
Where are these people currently operating? All over the world in places like Afghanistan.... And who works alongside and gives them a lift to and from places. The Air Force.

What's happening in Iraq at the moment? There is a war and that war relies on fighters to help flush out the enemy. They'd be up for hours and hours almost every single day.

Airforce pilots would be doing more than any 747 captain does. If they have nothing to do they practise many many situations. Eg. Flying low with two engines with an Orion, dropping off lunch for the army training with the helicopters etc.
They would be paid by the government to constantly be kept busy so if they are needed they are instantly ready.

I'd actually go through the air force or at least interview ex-pilots before making comments such as that.

[Kelburn]

Also they would be more likeable and interesting as they have flown tonnes of planes and know how to have fun

They wouldn't all know how to have fun as some may be dull etc. Therefore what you said means that all of us going private don't know how to?
And some airforce pilots may be complete XXXXXXX so saying they'd be moer likable wouldn't happen as that's personality not anything to do with the Airforce

Also again as I've said they wouldn't fly a herc at 6:00 land at 10:00 jump into a 757 go to Iraq and then jump into a huey (hey I spelled it right this time) and fly to a remote village.

I say they specialise in one aircraft and as the years go on the may change but they wouldn't fly every aircraft. Thats like saying that all Air NZ pilots can Fly a 747-400 767-300 737-300 A320 ATR-72 Q300 Saab 340A and a Beechcraft 1900D

[ZKTOM]

And some airforce pilots may be complete XXXXXXX

We can guess what's been censored . Kelburn think of the airforce like school that is streamed. It is more competetive. If you do get in it's like being in the accelerant classes becoz many many people are trying to get into it. Private is like a school that isn't streamed and anybody can do it.

Think open kelburn coz some of your posts have very narrow ideas that only few people agree with. Eg. put yourself in another's shoes and see what they think.