Pacific Blue to Tauranga?

[Naki]

Off a Priority One (Bay of Plenty Economic Development Organisation) newsletter:

QUOTE

Pacific Blue is in discussions with Tauranga Airport on the viability of setting up a service from Tauranga. The airline, which also services domestic flights between Auckland, Wellington, Christchurch and Dunedin, says the growing population is one of the main reasons the service is being considered[/quote]

[benwynn]

Cant see it happening anytime soon, unless they get some 737-700's, Im pretty sure the 190 couldn't get in.

Im not familiar with the Tauranga area, is it large enough to sustain jet travel, seeing as though they only get Q300's and 1900Ds now?

[oniellnz]

QUOTE (benwynn @ Jun 24 2009, 01:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Cant see it happening anytime soon, unless they get some 737-700's, Im pretty sure the 190 couldn't get in.

Im not familiar with the Tauranga area, is it large enough to sustain jet travel, seeing as though they only get Q300's and 1900Ds now?

According to the NZ AIP charts, the main runway is a bit longer (1825 M) than Wellington's (1814 M). So I guess it can get them in and out if need be. The next question is can Tauranga airport cope with jets, and how much they are will to spend to get jets in.

[Naki]

737s often divert to Tauranga and 737 charters pass through - Tauranga (in population) is bigger than Dunedin and not that much smaller than Hamilton ...but airports not too far away include Hamilton (1 Hour) and Rotorua (45 minutes) and they are also are competing for jet traffic.

[Rebound]

I don't think Tauranga needs jets.

[Daniel]

As much as I would like to see Pacific Blue or jets into Tauranga, I cannot see it happening. I think when some of the Air NZ 733s diverted from Rotorua, they have to lower the arms the port cranes or something and when its on the apron, the grass runway has to be closed. The runway is pretty much at its maximum length as they have the habour and bridge at one end and the gold course and residential areas to the other end. The E Jets seem to chew through the runway lengths and a 737 800 would still use a decent amount. The demand is there for an E 190 in my view but I don't think there would be enough runway.

However I have heard many people saying it was cheaper to drive to Rotorua and then get the QF 733 down to Christchurch or Queenstown or otherwise even going up to Auckland to get something out of there. I think Tauranga would be better suited to making the Q300 a daily service and possibly upgrading it to an ATR or 2 daily Q300s. They would also need to reduce the fares out of Tauranga as the Tauranga to Christchurch ones are outragous. At the moment Air New Zealand has a monopoly over the Tauranga routes. It would be good to have Pacific Blue but I just don't think they could operate using the airport.

If Pacific Blue did go in there it would completely change the airport. In would come AVSEC, 2 metre high metal fences etc. Tauranga has alot of GA traffic and fences that you can easily leap over.

[Goose]

QUOTE (Daniel @ Jun 24 2009, 03:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As much as I would like to see Pacific Blue or jets into Tauranga, I cannot see it happening. I think when some of the Air NZ 733s diverted from Rotorua, they have to lower the arms the port cranes or something and when its on the apron, the grass runway has to be closed. The runway is pretty much at its maximum length as they have the habour and bridge at one end and the gold course and residential areas to the other end. The E Jets seem to chew through the runway lengths and a 737 800 would still use a decent amount. The demand is there for an E 190 in my view but I don't think there would be enough runway.

However I have heard many people saying it was cheaper to drive to Rotorua and then get the QF 733 down to Christchurch or Queenstown or otherwise even going up to Auckland to get something out of there. I think Tauranga would be better suited to making the Q300 a daily service and possibly upgrading it to an ATR or 2 daily Q300s. They would also need to reduce the fares out of Tauranga as the Tauranga to Christchurch ones are outragous. At the moment Air New Zealand has a monopoly over the Tauranga routes. It would be good to have Pacific Blue but I just don't think they could operate using the airport.

If Pacific Blue did go in there it would completely change the airport. In would come AVSEC, 2 metre high metal fences etc. Tauranga has alot of GA traffic and fences that you can easily leap over.

Air Nelson has two q300's based in Tauranga, the air traffic in a out of there is pretty substantial at the moment, i think the main issue they would have with jet traffic would be parking issues, they would have to extend the apron and maybe move the grass runway. I have been on a 73 out of tga and there is plenty of runway length for them to get in and out, dont think they'd have to lower the cranes because the are off to the right when using 25 so should be well out of the way, and if on approach to 07 they shouldnt be over the cranes cos they normally join straight in or a right base. Would be cool to see jet traffic in there or at least a competing airline for ANZ cos the flights out can be pretty steep!

[aviation]

Tauranga's runway is probably only just long enough to take the 737-800. Dunedin is 1900m & they use the 738 here, but NZTG is a little shorter @ 1825m so I think they would definitely struggle under full load.

I'm pretty sure the E190 would be a definite "NO" because they have less powerful engines & can't get up to speed as quickly, but it will be interesting to follow this story and see what develops.

Thanks for sharing.

[benwynn]

Yeah, thus my initial comment of the 737-700. The 190 chews through the runway, surprisingly.

[Naki]

Just a quick note of something I thought about today - Embraer have got certification into London City for the E 190. They have a very short runway (something like 1300 metres?) Surely if they can go in there, they can get into alot more ports in NZ.

QUOTE

I have been on a 73 out of tga and there is plenty of runway length for them to get in and out,[/quote]
Was that a 737 200 or 300? The 300s have pretty good performance but the 800s do take a fair bit more.

Last edited by Daniel on Thu Jun 25, 2009 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Naki]

Havent had time to decipher this but this maybe helpful

737-800 specs

Embraer E-190 specs

[Daniel]

Thanks Naki, here is the info from it

The Embraer E-190 has the following..

Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, MTOW 6,745ft 2,056m
Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm 4,157ft 1,267m
Landing Field Length, SL, MLW 4,341ft 1,323m

And a range of up to 4,448 km

The Embraer E-170 has the following..

Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, MTOW 5,394ft 1,644m
Take Off Field Length, ISA, SL, TOW for 500nm 3,763ft 1,147m
Landing Field Length, SL, MLW 4,177ft 1,273m

And has a range of 3,892 km

The 737 800 has the following perfomance.. (Off wikipedia)

Take Off run 2450m at Maximum take off weight (of course at TRG it wouln't be that cause of loads and fuel)
The landing would be alot less and it has a range of 5665 km

[Goose]

QUOTE (Daniel @ Jun 25 2009, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just a quick note of something I thought about today - Embraer have got certification into London City for the E 190. They have a very short runway (something like 1300 metres?) Surely if they can go in there, they can get into alot more ports in NZ.

Was that a 737 200 or 300? The 300s have pretty good performance but the 800s do take a fair bit more.

ummm it was whatever air national have, was a charter flight from tga to chch.

[Anthony]

Well I guess it would be possible, but I don't personally see it happening. Having Pacific Blue flying Tauranga would be good from the point of view of Air NZ's monopoly and the steep pricing from Tauranga and the point of view of Tauranga having jet service.

I think Tauranga might be too small for Pacific Blue to look at at this stage. Loads out of Tauranga have been strong every time I've flown out of there (not all that much admittedly) but it is still a port served only by Q300s and 1900Ds. I don't know that TRG could fill a 737 800 on a daily basis or on any frequency to make it really worth it. We'll see I guess, but I think that first they'll go to double daily Q300s with Air Nelson before Pacific Blue thinks about going there.

Yeah it would be cool, but I think Rotorua is more likely to get Pacific Blue first (yeah I'm not biased at all ).

[twinstarda42]

QUOTE (Naki @ Jun 24 2009, 01:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Off a Priority One (Bay of Plenty Economic Development Organisation) newsletter:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/waikato-times/news/...ategic-alliance

Airports get together in strategic alliance
By MARTIN TIFFANY - Waikato Times Last updated 05:00 11/07/2009SharePrint Text Size Relevant offers
Hamilton International Airport has forged a strategic alliance with Tauranga Airport.

The link will see Tauranga Airport promoting international flights and connections out of Hamilton on low-cost airline Pacific Blue, which starts a service to Australia on September 1.

In return, Hamilton, as the gateway to the central North Island, will be promoting Tauranga and the Bay of Plenty as a destination to tourists arriving on Pacific Blue from Sydney and Brisbane.

Hamilton airport has weathered turbulence in recent times, hitting a big trough in April when its last Air New Zealand international flight flew out.

But in June Pacific Blue announced the start of trans-Tasman flights to and from the airport.

Just three days later, Hamilton airport announced it was seeking resource consent to extend its runway to nearly 3000 metres. This would allow it to handle wide-bodied jets with destinations beyond Australia, including Asia, when demand warranted.

Hamilton Mayor Bob Simcock and Tauranga Mayor Stuart Crosby support the alliance, saying it will bring huge benefits to both regions and open up previously untapped Australian markets.

Mr Crosby said Tauranga was endorsing Pacific Blue flights out of Hamilton because it was a fit with a region wanting an international connection.

Tauranga airport did not have aspirations to operate as an international airport.

"What we now want is a growing domestic operation with easy access to international flights just an hour or so away," Mr Crosby said.

"It makes sense for Tauranga, as one of New Zealand's largest and growing cities, to endorse Hamilton airport and avoid unnecessary duplication of investments in assets."

Mr Simcock said that given the large investment made at Hamilton airport, the alliance would save Tauranga ratepayers funding further international development at their airport.

"Just as many Waikato exporters ship through the Port of Tauranga, it makes sense for Tauranga travellers to make use of flights from Hamilton," he said.

Meanwhile, the chief executives of both airports, Chris Doak in Hamilton, and Ray Dumble in Tauranga, are developing strategies to capture tourism opportunities. An early objective is to look at coach services from Tauranga Airport to Hamilton Airport when Pacific Blue starts flights to Sydney and Brisbane on September 1.

The new alliance will be watched closely by Rotorua Regional Airport, which has trans-Tasman plans, with work on its $30 million runway extension due to be completed next month.

But Rotorua airport chief executive George White has repeatedly said Pacific Blue's announcement did not affect Rotorua airport's plans as they had a different catchment and market.

[LMerraine]

Tauranga has a really special place in my heart, with a lot of my childhood weekends spent there, as well as getting married there.

When the wifey and I were working out the funds for the wedding (living in chch at the time) we found it cheaper to fly direct to Rotorua and then hire a car for the weekend, and drive back to Rotorua than through WN to TG.

In the end we ended up doing the later, as my sister was coming over, and we haven't flown into Wellington for years.

I thought there was an issue with the cranes if bigger planes were going in and out, and the times that they have had the bigger planes, maybe that was organised, but I could see that being an issue if it was a regular occurrence. I can't find anything to back up this claim, so I could be wrong.

I would love it if HN or RO could take the 767, or the 787, as then hopefully I can avoid Auckland next time I fly home - can't see that happening though.

TG is a high growth area though population wise - again this is from memory, but last time I was there, I couldn't believe how much it had grown.

[greaneyr]

There's two issues here, whether Tauranga should have a jet service, and whether it will.

I believe it should, for the same reason I believe many larger provincial centres should - because I don't see why not. If you compare the sizes of smaller destinations served by Virgin Blue jets in Australia, you'll see that NZ do pretty poorly in terms of what services passengers have offered to them. Australia sees jets into much smaller places than NZ does, and with similar tourist attractions. Granted, the hubs are far larger than the hubs in NZ, but doesn't that strengthen the case more? Surely hub and spoke would prevail more in Australia, and form a more sound case for regional turboprops, but they do it with jets. Yes, they have turboprops too... but here in NZ jets are largely the exclusive domain of hub-hub sectors.

Tauranga is growing and I always like seeing businesses acknowledging this by improving the services offered to them.

Will it? I don't know. My bet is for no, but then it's Pacific Blue not Air NZ so it's an unknown.