RNZAF HELI OPs WELLINGTON

[HamiltonWest]

Air Force Helicopter Operations In The Greater Wellington Area

Wednesday, 23 June, 2010 - 17:03 The public of the greater Wellington area are advised that the Royal New Zealand Air Force (RNZAF) will be conducting a military exercise based in the Wellington region on the evenings of the 23, 24 and 27 June 2010.

Iroquois helicopters from No. 3 Squadron RNZAF will be practising tactical low flying operations at night, utilising night vision equipment, between sunset and midnight.

On 27 June there will be extensive operations in the Central Business District during these hours.

No. 3 Squadron is required to conduct exercises in order to provide capable and timely response options in support of the New Zealand Government's needs.

http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/air-force-h...on-area/5/52940

[BK-117]

Very interesting. Would be cool to watch! Shame I don't live in Wellington.

[Chairman]

I think the point of the 27th CBD stuff is that you're not supposed to be able to watch it. If it's the same thing we had up here last year it will involve unlit choppers putting MIB down on the roofs of various buildings.

I know it'll be pretty obvious if there's an iroquois clattering away on a roof near you but with no lights spotting exactly which roof won't be easy, and the troops will go internally down to basement car parks and straight into the vans with the dark tinted windows ...

[markll]

QUOTE (Chairman @ Jun 24 2010, 11:39 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the point of the 27th CBD stuff is that you're not supposed to be able to watch it. If it's the same thing we had up here last year it will involve unlit choppers putting MIB down on the roofs of various buildings.

I know it'll be pretty obvious if there's an iroquois clattering away on a roof near you but with no lights spotting exactly which roof won't be easy, and the troops will go internally down to basement car parks and straight into the vans with the dark tinted windows ...

Yeah exactly - there aren't many reasons to do night ops in the CBD of a city...

Heard a UH1 buzzing round up my way (near NZPP) last night...

[HamiltonWest]

whingers:

Low level flights unavoidable - air force
Updated at 12:07pm on 28 June 2010

The Royal New Zealand Air Force says there's no way for it to avoid low level flying in built-up areas.

A number of Wellington people have complained about low level missions of Iroquois helicopters on Sunday night; some were so low they shook houses.

Four Iroquois helicopters have been practising tactical low flying operations between sunset and midnight.

The RNZAF says it is a Government requirement that the air force practise low level flying in a built-up area.

Spokesperson Kavae Tamariki says the air force tries to minimise the noise, but it was particularly loud on Sunday night because the sound was reverberating off low cloud.

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/stories/2010...28/12480acc836f

[husker]

4 of them flew over my place in Makara - awesome noise...blades 'cracking' away!

[Naki]

They must have there own CAA rulz ,

QUOTE

CAA rules say helicopters using hospital helipads must have the capability of maintaining sufficient power for the loads on board. That eliminates single-engined helicopters such as Taranaki's and some twin-engined versions.[/quote]
ag
would this not mean also a single turbine uh1 that is near what 60 years old ? hovering over a CBD or dropping troops on buildings is against CAA rulz as well ,what a load of bull ...

[NZ255]

Oh yeah they sounded awesome last night around 11pm. Doing maths when 'chop chop chop'

[markll]

QUOTE (creator2003 @ Jun 28 2010, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They must have there own CAA rulz ,

ag
would this not mean also a single turbine uh1 that is near what 60 years old ? hovering over a CBD or dropping troops on buildings is against CAA rulz as well ,what a load of bull ...

Yeah fully, tho 1) I thought the rule was wrt where they are based? and 2) surely as the Air Force is not civil, the CAA technically has F.A. authority over them?

[Naki]

QUOTE

must have the capability of maintaining sufficient power for the loads on board[/quote]
Hospital pads are normally in built up areas /people ie why i take it this rule by the CAA has been implemented with Rescue helicopters,
" As not to put anyone in danger in the event of engine failure etc ""
So my point being i suppose, the Airforce have some of there training runs repelling on cbd buildings near apartments and city streets /people ,
not really your life and death ambulance mission with a serious injury onboard ,but all the same dangerous and putting other civilian lives in danger,right ?
just seems to me its a bit hypocritical of whoever makes up these rules to be putting Airforce training at full low level activity and cbd repelling/landings with a 60 year old helicopter higher priority over a maybe 4year old rescue helicopter , the right to land at a hospital pad to save a life or park up for the next mission , in many cases in the golden hour were minutes count ..

or have i got it all wrong ..?

Last edited by creator2003 on Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[HercFeend]

I'll just let Colonel Jessep say his piece: "I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post."

The importance and necessity of any operational force or service having the ability to practice scenarios "for real" cannot be overstressed. A nation demands the protection provided my the police and armed forces and therefore cannot complain too harshly when they are involved in exercises to ensure that they can deliver what is expected of them when demanded. Don't think for one second that every single precaution and safety factor possible has been thought of and taken into account long before the fuel for the choppers has even been purchased!

[andrewb]

Yeah sounds like our helicopter trust has been denied an exemption to fly to it's helipad/hangar at Taranaki Base Hospital, according to the news this morning the trust is now looking into sale & purchase or lease options for a twin-engined chopper. I hope they can get the support they deserve, it's the one charity we don't mind donating to every year.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news...opter-loses-out

[ZK-KAG]

QUOTE (creator2003 @ Jun 28 2010, 01:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They must have there own CAA rulz ,

ag
would this not mean also a single turbine uh1 that is near what 60 years old ? hovering over a CBD or dropping troops on buildings is against CAA rulz as well ,what a load of bull ...

The Airforce do not abide by any CAA rules and regulations as they operate under their own set. Thus they can pretty do what they like with regards to their choppers and where they operate them.

[Naki]

Dont know who that Colonel Jessep is and i dont really need to know ,but even in war the people would stand there post and pick up a gun ,like they did in ww2 ww1 and many other wars ,Very patriotic
As for the blanket we live under in NZ , we have nothing to defend ourselves and there are weapons/vehicles we buy and never use wasting away in boxes bunkers , 40 odd LAVS plus $250.000each stingers we cant even sell back to the USA ,not to mention our fleet of 1960 skyhawks sitting on the tarmac plus 60 year airframe UH1
We are like a big radar system waiting to find trouble but cant do anything about it ,we are sitting ducks but the most peaceful nation on earth ,that makes me feel so safe .

QUOTE

Yeah sounds like our helicopter trust has been denied an exemption to fly to it's helipad/hangar at Taranaki Base Hospital, according to the news this morning the trust is now looking into sale & purchase or lease options[/quote]

thats the real sad fact that one can have a buget to waste and fly under there own rules and one has donations and has trouble saving lives on a daily bases i would think the fire and ambo services are right up there with police and military, whos job is there to pick up the pieces ...

Last edited by creator2003 on Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[ZKIWI]

QUOTE (creator2003 @ Jun 29 2010, 06:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dont know who that Colonel Jessep is and i dont really need to know ,but even in war the people would stand there post and pick up a gun ,like they did in ww2 ww1 and many other wars ,Very patriotic
As for the blanket we live under in NZ , we have nothing to defend ourselves and there are weapons/vehicles we buy and never use wasting away in boxes bunkers , 40 odd LAVS plus $250.000each stingers we cant even sell back to the USA ,not to mention our fleet of 1960 skyhawks sitting on the tarmac plus 60 year airframe UH1
We are like a big radar system waiting to find trouble but cant do anything about it ,we are sitting ducks but the most peaceful nation on earth ,that makes me feel so safe .


thats the real sad fact that one can have a buget to waste and fly under there own rules and one has donations and has trouble saving lives on a daily bases i would think the fire and ambo services are right up there with police and military, whos job is there to pick up the pieces ...

I think your maths may be slightly wrong Creator. Unsure where the 60 year old Hueys you see come from but the RNZAF ones are not 60 years old. The original design was penned 62 years ago but the RNZAF Hueys are only a maximum of 44 years old and better maintained than any civilian chopper in NZ i would argue. As for one of your earlier post about 4 year old rescue choppers in NZ, i would be very surprised if you can find an outfit flying such a new machine but i am willing to be proved wrong on this.

[Naki]

The Naki's A119 (the helicopter that cant land at its base) is only about year or two old...most of the other Rescue Choppers would be well over 4 years old though.

The Hueys arrived for the RNZAF in two batches - one lot in 1966 and the other in 1970 so that would make them either 44 or 40 years old...still pretty old but rather academic now as the replacements are arriving over the next year (and all are twin engine)

Edit: Just checked - the Taranaki Rescue chopper is 3 years old

[creator2003]

The point is still the same, the age gap is huge ,i may be wrong with the exact age because i really dont care ,even the 60 year old thing was just a guess , but rules are rules and if one services is aloud to fly a" 44 year" single turbine chopper in dangerous repelling over CBD buildings and over civilian housing anytime they please you would think a rescue service would be able to do the same , plus the airforce have a huge budget to replace there fleet , to jump back within caa regulations ..

QUOTE

In the letter, CAA says that at issue is the performance required of helicopters to enable them to operate safely to and from helipads in congested areas.
In the event of a power failure the helicopter must be able to either land or safely continue on to another landing area - and this means all single-engined helicopters cannot comply with the rules.[/quote]

QUOTE

The letter claims that since January 1999 there have been 17 incidents in which helicopters either needed to shut down engines due to warnings, or made precautionary landings because of mechanical failures or warnings. All these incidents were during air ambulance operations.[/quote]
Rescue helicopters are used on a daily bases so they get problems like anything else ,maybe the Airforce dont have to record there incidents /problems as maybe they are governed only by themselves, again a floor in the system ,who was there when the Airforce crashed into the side of the hill and saved one crew ,lucky the wellington twin bk117, still a chopper that relies on funding grants and donations ,some areas aren't so lucky and don't have the cash to replace there helicopters but still have to fly daily on rescue missions .


this is just opinion and not all thats said is 100% correct fact ,though close enough to have a opinion on airforce ops and rescue ops and the way rules are enforced on one and not the other ...BS
end of venting

creator2003

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[andrewb]

Yep, the Taranaki chopper was purchased brand new in 2007 for $4.5 million - funded by donations from local organisations and the community themselves. It'd be a huge loss to lose the service, we just received a call from them tonight as part of their annual fundraising drive and gave what we could - but I suspect they will have a difficult road ahead to gather up enough cash for a replacement.

Link: Stats on the current helicopter.