What hours can he claim?

[HercFeend]

Imagine this. There’s this guy, he’s revising and preparing for the CPL flight test. He’s conducting multiple flights with an instructor during which he’s doing 99%, if not all, of the flying and is making all the command decisions.

What hours should or even what hours could the pilot in the left hand seat claim in his log book? Solo, Dual, Dual but with his name in the PIC column - but then does that count as PIC hours? He has a PPL so can be Pilot In Command but accompanied by an Instructor. It’s not a solo flight because he has someone with him, if that person wasn’t an instructor however it would be solo. Does it have to be recorded as a dual flight because he has an instructor with him........?

Grey area! Some other hour categories could be called for.

Although, as always, open for discussion, I'd be very interested to hear a definitive authoritative answer from CAA, an instructor or examiner.

Many thanks.

[pilotgallagher01]

Well at the moment I am doing revison with my instructor preparing for my CPL, and while I have been logging it is dual, on ocasions he has told me I can log it as PIC if the lesson can't be done, eg CPL cross countries, weather turns bad and you can't make the 200nm mark so he was kind and let me log it as PIC. I was told that when your flying with an instructor it's dual unless it's a flight test or what have you.. or if instructor says you can log it PIC..

[Ace]

Can't give you an authoritative answer, but I'm in the exact situation, and logging it as Dual.

[ZK-KAG]

Dual it is... As you're undergoing CPL training, it has to be considered dual unless you are by yourself / have no instructor on board.

See CAA Rules Part 61.29 - http://www.caa.govt.nz/rules/Rule_Consolid...nsolidation.pdf. And also look at AC-61-3...

=)

[mfraser]

+1 for dual...........

[HercFeend]

Thanks for the replies.

It's pretty much as I though but just wanted to clarify......

Thanks again.

[A185F]

QUOTE (HercFeend @ Aug 5 2010, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What hours should or even what hours could the pilot in the left hand seat claim in his log book?

Either depending on the situation

QUOTE (HercFeend @ Aug 5 2010, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Solo,

possibly

QUOTE (HercFeend @ Aug 5 2010, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dual,

most likely

QUOTE (HercFeend @ Aug 5 2010, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dual but with his name in the PIC column

No

QUOTE (HercFeend @ Aug 5 2010, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

- but then does that count as PIC hours?

No

QUOTE (HercFeend @ Aug 5 2010, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

He has a PPL so can be Pilot In Command but accompanied by an Instructor.
It’s not a solo flight because he has someone with him, if that person wasn’t an instructor however it would be solo.

Not quite because "solo" is alone. As in alone practicing by your self. You mean acting as the PIC.

QUOTE (HercFeend @ Aug 5 2010, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Does it have to be recorded as a dual flight because he has an instructor with him........?

No.


Right. Providing you are both licenced, rated, current etc etc all that bla bla, you are both entitled/qualified to be able to act as PIC. Of course there can only be 1 PIC and because you are undergoing flight instruction (I spose anyway) it would usually be logged as dual. HOWEVER, this does NOT always have to be the case. That instructor could mearly be a passenger in the right seat. Just because he/she has an instructor rating does not automaticly mean they will be PIC of any flight they are leagally qualified to act as PIC on.
Its just like two pilots flying round together who could both log it as PIC but only one can and must be designated prior to the flight. It could be that you discus with your instructor prior to the flight and ask if you may be able act as PIC, maybe to build your PIC hours towards the licence requirement or whatever. They may or may not agree to this.

I very often encounter this situation my self flying with some private pilots exposing them to new parts of the country/airfields/types of flying and tips/tricks etc etc. I could log the flight as PIC, giving instruction etc but I, more often than not, don't. It's of no advantage to me but maybe for the other, building PIC hours towards higher licences or insurance requirements etc etc. And I do think it very wise of them to take along someone who can help out when doing something/going somewhere new.
Also I often do it when converting someone onto a different aircraft, if the rating is "completed" but they are out practicing or building time I will often go along to show more stuff or just to help out if need be, though they now logging pic.
Of course I'm more than happy doing this however, as discussed before hand, if the poo hits the prop, depending on the situation I may "assume command" of the aircraft.

As a wee side story, slightly relevant
A number of years ago, I had just got a freshly minted PPL and a brand spanking new type rating on (I think) a piper arrow and very inexperienced, with both. I was going to take this thing from Mot to Nelson, short flight and the weather was rather pooey. I took along a mate of mine from school for the ride, and also my VERY experienced instructor (25k+hrs over 50 years of military fastjet (with combat experience), widebody airliner command/training and low level airshow warbird display flying etc) needed a lift back to nelson. So I briefed etc my mate about only being able to ride in the back etc etc because the instructor was on board and I automatically assumed I would be flying with him logging as dual etc. But no, he pulled my mate out of the back and told him he could ride up front with me (and I was to give him a go !). I was shocked ! This old bloke with an untold wealth of experience was more than happy to let me, a bearly 17y/o pimple faced cartoon (with next to zero experience on the licence and type, in crappy wx) and my same aged/faced mate fly him back to nelson whilst sitting compfortably in the back seats !

[HercFeend]

Thanks 185. That has made it a lot clearer

[IslandBoy77]

QUOTE (A185F @ Aug 9 2010, 01:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This old bloke with an untold wealth of experience was more than happy to let me, a bearly 17y/o pimple faced cartoon (with next to zero experience on the licence and type, in crappy wx) and my same aged/faced mate fly him back to nelson whilst sitting compfortably in the back seats !

Perhaps you had an honest / trustworthy face...