Wellington weather

[NZ255]

Just came back from a holiday in the SI, came back on an ATR.

Flying into Wellington was very cool! Well, in my point of view.....maybe don't ask the passengers that were crying.

I didn't even think of videoing it but check out the video below for a taste of yesterdays weather:

A fantastic job from the pilots, after rocking around, dropping and generally getting a hammering, he placed it on the runway and then stopped it as fast as he could

http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-Pilot-takes-t...84/Default.aspx


Good fun

[Adamski]

QUOTE (NZ255 @ Jan 14 2012,12:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A fantastic job from the pilots, after rocking around, dropping and generally getting a hammering, he placed it on the runway and then stopped it as fast as he could
http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-Pilot-takes-t...84/Default.aspx

I saw that video last night on the news. Isn't that FOUR attempts if you count the initial "go around"??

That second one looked really hairy ... heck of a down-draft which must have put the landing gear to the ultimate test! Amazing how these heavyweights *bounce*. I think if I were on that flight, I'd be grateful I was wearing my brown corduroys

[NZ255]

QUOTE (Adamski @ Jan 14 2012,4:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I saw that video last night on the news. Isn't that FOUR attempts if you count the initial "go around"??

That second one looked really hairy ... heck of a down-draft which must have put the landing gear to the ultimate test! Amazing how these heavyweights *bounce*. I think if I were on that flight, I'd be grateful I was wearing my brown corduroys

Defiantly glad we weren't on that flight!

I trust the pilots and generally (perhaps naively?) have full faith that they'll get us down i one piece. When other people are very upset I'm, having a ball.... I love flying but going back to the naive thing, I'd rather be having fun than freaking out.

That 737 drop may have made me change my mind and become a little worried

[Naki]

QUOTE

That second one looked really hairy ... heck of a down-draft which must have put the landing gear to the ultimate test! Amazing how these heavyweights *bounce*. I think if I were on that flight, I'd be grateful I was wearing my brown corduroys laugh.gif[/quote]

QUOTE

That 737 drop may have made me change my mind and become a little worried[/quote]

Wow . That must have been scary for both the pilots and passengers. It reminded me somewhat of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pa0Vr0Gg-Q

737NG

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Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:28 am

Posts: 21

Location: Auckland

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[Naki]

QUOTE (Adamski @ Jan 14 2012,4:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I saw that video last night on the news. Isn't that FOUR attempts if you count the initial "go around"??

That second one looked really hairy ... heck of a down-draft which must have put the landing gear to the ultimate test! Amazing how these heavyweights *bounce*. I think if I were on that flight, I'd be grateful I was wearing my brown corduroys

1st one was a Qantas 737 with winglets.....others were a Air NZ 737. Agree with the 2nd attempt!

[Ian Warren]

On that footage , has anyone seen or is their footage of an ARBUST landing in those conditions , seem always the trusty 737 has the fame to glory in wicked windy landings into Wellington .

[AlisterC]

Well done Air NZ. I'd rather they take 3 shots at it, than one ill-fated attempt. Great flying in terrible weather. Thumbs up (thanks for the video share)

[cowpatz]

Actually it wasn't well done at all. After that 2nd attempt they should have diverted. In fact it could be argued that if the conditions remained unchanged they should have diverted after the first attempt.

[A2BOK]

QUOTE (cowpatz @ Jan 15 2012,5:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually it wasn't well done at all. After that 2nd attempt they should have diverted. In fact it could be argued that if the conditions remained unchanged they should have diverted after the first attempt.

Firstly, the video caption is incorrect. There are actually two Air NZ 737s filmed here. The first tried two approaches then diverted to Auckland. Ten minutes later, an entriely different 737 conducted an approach and landed on it's first attempt.

As for your comment regarding diverting, each crew will weigh up the options and make a decision based on their own circumstances. I do not like second guessing other crews but see no reason why you would not at least try a second approach if you had the fuel. Just because you get severe sink on one approach (or maybe a windshear warning which you must comply with) does not mean the same thing will happen second time around. At the end of the day, one can try as many goes as they and their SOPs permit. That being said, I would never begrudge a crew who bug out after the first approach if they believe that is the correct course of action. This is why you have people sitting up front; to make the decisions when needed. I did not feature personally in the footage but was operating in and out of Wellington all afternoon with no issues (albeit delayed) so speak with some experience on the matter.

[cowpatz]

Yes I realise that the caption did not fit the footage as the first 737 had winglets. This could have been a media blunder or just have been a case of editorial license.
Any pilot regularly operating into wellington is aware of the "hole" just prior to the threshold of 34. I would be alarmed to think that the 737 depicted, after all but collapsing the gear or striking the tail, returned for a second go. I would be very surprised if it met the stable approach criteria as per Air NZ SOP's and as the aircraft obviously encountered significant windshear they should really have adopted a conservative approach and opted to either hold until conditions improved or divert.

[A2BOK]

QUOTE (cowpatz @ Jan 16 2012,2:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I realise that the caption did not fit the footage as the first 737 had winglets. This could have been a media blunder or just been a case of editorial license.
Any pilot regularly operating into wellington is aware of the "hole" just prior to the threshold of 34. I would be alarmed to think that the 737 depicted, after all but collapsing the gear or striking the tail, returned for a second go. I would be very surprised if it met the stable approach criteria as per Air NZ SOP's and as the aircraft obviously encountered significant windshear they should really have adopted a conservative approach and opted to either hold until conditions improved or divert.

The Moa point hole as you point out is common knowledge, pilots are mindful of this on approach. Stable approach criteria is easy to achieve (even in this weather) and has configuration, speed, descent and power requirements which are not that taxing. I was not in THAT Flight deck so can't comment with authority but it looked like any other Wellington approach of the day to me. The two approaches concerning the Air NZ aircraft that touched down in the process of the go around were separated by a number of other arrivals. I have no desire to get into a p***ing match so this will be my final post on the subject but I am curious as to what experience base you are drawing your opinion from? I refuse to second guess the decisions made by a given crew when one simply can not know what was occuring at any given point in time on board the Flightdeck. I will however defend the right of crews to make their own decisions whatever that happens to be and that is the point I am trying to make.

[cowpatz]

QUOTE (A2BOK @ Jan 16 2012,8:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

..... Stable approach criteria is easy to achieve (even in this weather) and has configuration, speed, descent and power requirements which are not that taxing...........

How can you possibly reach this conclusion when both aircraft went around? If it were "not that taxing" then both would have made normal arrivals. One had an excessive rate of descent and came close to a tail strike on the go-around. My point is that after such a hairy arrival why would you want to come back for more?
Of course I can only comment on what I see in the video and my own experience operating at Wellington.

[benwynn]

QUOTE (cowpatz @ Jan 16 2012,10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How can you possibly reach this conclusion when both aircraft went around? If it were "not that taxing" then both would have made normal arrivals. One had an excessive rate of descent and came close to a tail strike on the go-around. My point is that after such a hairy arrival why would you want to come back for more?
Of course I can only comment on what I see in the video and my own experience operating at Wellington.

I agree. I'm not sure if you've ever flown in a strong turbulent wind, but its fairly hard to maintain a decent speed +-5 knots of ref, on profile, let alone the amount of windshear thats usually present in Welly.

[A2BOK]

QUOTE (benwynn @ Jan 19 2012,9:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I'm not sure if you've ever flown in a strong turbulent wind, but its fairly hard to maintain a decent speed +-5 knots of ref, on profile, let alone the amount of windshear thats usually present in Welly.

Thank you, however having operated into and out of Wellington for years (including the day being discussed) I can assure you I have a very good grasp on operating in the above conditions

[NZ255]

QUOTE (A2BOK @ Jan 20 2012,9:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, however having operated into and out of Wellington for years (including the day being discussed) I can assure you I have a very good grasp on operating in the above conditions

Commercial or GA? Just interested, not proving anything

[FlyingKiwi]

Not to nitpick, but you can be GA and commercial simultaneously.

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (NZ255 @ Jan 20 2012,2:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Commercial or GA? Just interested, not proving anything

He's Commercial with a lot of time on big iron.....so i wouldn't push it much further....and as he said, he was into Wellington on the day mentioned in the BS news report.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Jan 20 2012,8:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Commercial or GA? Just interested, not proving anything

I'll happily answer that. GA in years gone by, currently on scheduled airline services.

QUOTE

He's Commercial with a lot of time on big iron[/quote]
Haha thanks, but nothing 'that big' operates into Welly; Medium wake category only
With that I retire from the thread (I promise this time! I'll just stop reading it to resist temptation to comment )

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (A2BOK @ Jan 20 2012,10:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I promise this time! I'll just stop reading it to resist temptation to comment

Negatory on that , why do you think i got to were i am .. I no what i no , You no what You no , so now we all No now ..... and for some , for the better .

[benwynn]

QUOTE (A2BOK @ Jan 20 2012,9:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thank you, however having operated into and out of Wellington for years (including the day being discussed) I can assure you I have a very good grasp on operating in the above conditions

Fair enough. It has certainly been interesting to hear the opinions from different pilots there on that particular day. As you say, personal decision from each of the crew. My understanding of it is quite a few aircraft held and picked just the right time to head in. I was particularly interested at the NZ 733 in the video, that slams into the ground before taking off again and going around. Obviously due to the significant windshear and slow spool up time I'm guessing, but interesting none the less...