NZFF

by **NZ255** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:32 pm

Just thinking out loud...presumably they'll use the shorter North runway for smaller domestic traffic and the longer existing South runway for larger/intl flights.

The domestic traffic has a long way to taxi to and from the terminal and runway.
According the the airport's report, most domestic traffic comes from the South, most Intl comes from the North. So atc will have to weave traffic in and out and around each other? Or maybe fly above and below to cross over?

I guess it can't really be avoided...

Anyone else able to weigh in?

airportofthefuture.co.nz

by **Ian Warren** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:42 pm

Great Find Nick , have to get this moved , east access to find it later Love the animation in that video, when started working on the airport a few years back he did have a static drawing showing those to smaller domestic runways, but to see it like that is very impressive.

by **zk2704** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:15 pm

Just watched that vid, Obviously, Air Traffic is going to be a bugger to move, Domestic air traffic have to taxi a long way to the shorter northern runway and most domestic traffic comes from the south, though most international traffic come from the north. I guess that it could be better that they extend the runway to about 3000m to allow all types of aircraft to land or take off on that runway either domestic or international.

To further correct that, the northern runway is the 3rd runway for Auckland, not the 2nd, despite that 5L-23R (future 5C-23C) will be used simultaneously with the current 5R-23L and the future 5L-23R despite the CAA lowering separation limits.

Even, I think that the northern runway would be capable for Cat III ILS (similar to 5R-23L which already has Cat III ILS) which would be another benefit to the operations to allow it for use in bad weather conditions and that they should allow 5L-23R (future 5C-23C) to upgrade the ILS to Cat II because of the distance from 5R-23L thus limiting ILS category choices for 5L-23R (future 5C-23C).

Anyways, the design of the airport is magnificent thus allowing more passengers into New Zealand and will be a benefit to the economy. The new ATC Tower will mean that aircraft operations will be better and more efficient. Under my point of view its a huge benefit to the aviation industry, the architecture of the joint terminal looks stunning and well thought out.

Overall, this vision will be a big influence to us NZers and us pilots, ATC and aviation enthusiasts.

by **Charl** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:05 pm

NZ255 wrote:
QUOTE (NZ255 @ Jun 19 2014,12:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So atc will have to weave traffic in and out and around each other? Or maybe fly above and below to cross over?

Yeah they'll have to weave them.
Happily Towerguy will have been replaced by a GPS sensor** so safety won't be a factor.

Biggest problem as ever: how do you safely operate an airport being made better, while it is being made better?

** Don't bite TG, it's a joke OK?

by **omitchell** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:16 pm

Charl wrote:
QUOTE (Charl @ Jun 19 2014,5:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Yeah they'll have to weave them.
Happily Towerguy will have been replaced by a GPS sensor** so safety won't be a factor.

Biggest problem as ever: how do you safely operate an airport being made better, while it is being made better?

** Don't bite TG, it's a joke OK?

Biggest problem as ever is probably that they will just start trying to use everything that becomes available at the same time. As so how do you do it safely? That's quite simple but often a path never taken. You start by maintaining current operations. You then follow that on by drip feeding the improvements in so it's not all a big rush and everything gets a chance to settle and adjust (Esp the people). AKL is set to undergo it's transformation in stages but even those stages has sub-stages. Implement the sub-stages as they happen instead of waiting for the whole stage to be complete. Makes for a smoother transition with the minimal impact to safety. (Dollars to Peso's says however they will opt for the all in one approach...)

by **towerguy** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:14 pm

no prob Charl, read and taken as one

Not worried, as the way they keep changing the plan I'll be lucky if my grand children are not working approach before any of it happens!

forget about the current 05L/23R. It was only ever a temporary conversion of the taxiway for use while the works take place on the main runway. It is far to close to 23L/05R for simultaneous ops and the cost will stop any approach aids being installed on it. The same goes for Cat3 on the northern runway - too expensive for both installation and maintenance for the return they would get from it. Will prob only be Cat1.

Last version of the plan I saw they were wanting to go directly to the mid sized length, able to take B737 sized aircraft, etc. This would make sense as the majority of traffic can handle that sized strip. Most of the trans tasman stuff is B738/A320 size and by putting them off the other runway it frees up room for the heavies.

If it was done logically you would have a full length runway built and then depending on wind you have all arrivals on 05L and departures off the current 05R or all arrivals on current 23L and deps off 23R. No extra noise to the north. The only bug bear is going to be the missed approach protection with departure stuff crossing north/south etc further out.

Will be interesting to watch - if they don't decide to turn it all into shopping malls and carparks first!

by **cowpatz** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:17 pm

The big stumbling block in the plan is the position of the Domestic terminal and despite what the video shows it has yet to be finalised. Also the position and length of the Northern runway complex is not yet set in concrete (pun intended). It may move left or right and in fact moves to the north by another 100 or so metres, from it's original location, which I'm not sure is depicted in the video. Of course that will be subject to Treaty of Waitangi claims, relocating Taniwhas (that will suddenly appear yet will move on command by offerings of cash), Archies frogs, anything from Twig and bird, noise lobbyists and the worst of all...politicians.

by **Ian Warren** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:33 pm

Me's forgot the stupidity of tradition, sanctuary, wild life and the wild people ... maybe they should be all be packed in a bag and send them on holiday, after all, it is an airport .. lovely terrorist spot in the middle east at the mo. Edit: - whoops tourist spot .

Its funny how dead land is suddenly so money wanting but I'm sure get sorted , Treaty of Waitangi claims is now getting a bit stale, there is this little piece of land nudged in by the terraces and the Wellington City center, they call it per .. parr .. parrli ... those buildings the twits run around and steal and cheat , maybe another cuppa. They will see the big bucks and veto anything away and hand a little profit to another tribe.

by **NZ255** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:43 pm

towerguy wrote:
QUOTE (towerguy @ Jun 20 2014,2:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If it was done logically you would have a full length runway built and then depending on wind you have all arrivals on 05L and departures off the current 05R or all arrivals on current 23L and deps off 23R. No extra noise to the north. The only bug bear is going to be the missed approach protection with departure stuff crossing north/south etc further out.

Is it always that the arrivals go on the L (l for landing landing?) runway?

QUOTE

forget about the current 05L/23R.[/quote]

How old is the latest Google Earth Image?

Last edited by NZ255 on Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NZFF

Auckland Airport of the Future

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