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PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:34 pm
by creator2003
Got this sent in my mailbox thought this was amazing flying skills



some of the comments say this is fake but ive watched it over and over and cant see that myself

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:40 pm
by victor_alpha_charlie
Yeah you're right. These people that just go on Youtube and say everything is fake...

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:48 pm
by creator2003
Just in the last couple of minutes ive done a search and come up with only a couple of other places writing about it ...
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.woodwor...57ecd9?lnk=raot


http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...30140510AAqZPAb


in my view that is fully possible and what guy would go build a model plane just so they could make a tube fake vid oh and at the end the plane fully has someone open it up with only one wing on it and a guy running to it ..

even though you cant see the pilots face you can see he has just looked death in the face ....

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:49 pm
by PiperDriver
The pilot did a good job to land that plane with only one wing. Must have been scary for the spectators.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:50 pm
by Chairman
That came up today on Sideswipe. I watched it and thought it looked and sounded and smoked exactly like a r/c model plane, even after it landed I was waiting for someone's feet to appear as they went to pick it up.

Gave me a heck of a shock when someone got out of it !

laugh.gif
Gary

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 6:54 pm
by FlyingKiwi
This is quite clearly not real, for a number of reasons. In no particular order:

1) The "where's his right wing" and "oh my god, ruuuuuuuun!" or words to that effect sound nothing at all like what someone witnessing an imminent fatal plane crash would say - unfortunately I base this on having seen many similar, real, videos. Not to mention the very fake sounding "nooo!" a moment before the landing.

2) The general motion of the aircraft in flight looks like an RC plane, in particular the knife edge maneuver - the aircraft appears to have literally no momentum at all as it pulls up into the knife edge.

3) The bounce on landing is in my view the most telling factor - unless the laws of physics have been redefined I don't see a real aeroplane of at least several hundred kilograms weight, with one highly aerodynamic lifting surface still attached, and moving at considerable speed, bouncing like that. An RC plane on the other hand, bounces exactly like that. Not to mention a lightweight taildragger would have almost certainly nosed over or ground looped in the event of a landing like that.

4) The aircraft goes from flying speed to taxiing speed in the space of about 1 second. I'm guessing this is where the footage of the RC plane is switched with real footage. That would also probably explain the sudden shakiness of what up until that point had been a remarkably steady piece of camera work.

5) The pilot who emerges from the aircraft at the end doesn't appear to be wearing a headset, unless he removed it at the same time that he was shutting down the engine and opening the canopy.

6) Although I may possibly be wrong, I sincerely doubt that an aircraft of that design could sustain controlled flight of any kind with one wing missing - regardless of the skill of the pilot. An F-15 traveling at high speed with its highly aerodynamic fuselage, yes, as has been done before for real, but an aerobatics aircraft traveling at reasonably low speed and with presumably only a tiny fraction of the total lift produced by the fuselage at any speed, very unlikely. I think the actual tendency of the aircraft would be to go into a completely uncontrollable spiral at which point no amount of control input would have any effect whatsoever.


My hunch is that the real aircraft had the right wing removed for whatever reason, but was in otherwise fully working condition, and someone decided to make the video we see here. The initial footage may possibly be real - everything from just before the wing comes off to the point at which the plane inexplicably loses 40 or 50 knots in the space of a second or so, is an RC plane.

Edit - Credit due to whoever made the video though, it is very cleverly done.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:04 pm
by creator2003
Yeah ive got the highres version downloaded to my pc and the wing was a ripped wing and i seen the head move on landing ,just seems a weird thing to do make a model plane to land with one wing $$$$ then ask your mate to take his wing off a real plane and taxi down a runway ????..

hhhhmmmm at one time they said they could not do a backflip on a motor bike now they are doing it twice with a superman inclued i think anything is possible and the movie above could be one of those times...

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:17 pm
by Charl
angry.gif Fake, but marks for trying ohmy.gif
The only plane that does one wing landings is the Eagle

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:22 pm
by Chairman
The reason I thought it was a r/c plane to begin with was that if it wasn't, these must have been the biggest traffic cones ever !

laugh.gif



Following on from that I did some googling of my own and found this, on http://aido3n.blogspot.com/2008/10/c-the-b...pilot-ever.html

QUOTE
So, I did more poking around. The James Andersson website claims he is from Great Britain and Germany. However, if it's a real aircraft, where's the aircraft registration number? It could be that it's just too small to see, but watching carefully, I didn't see anything like that.

Then I got suspicious. Whois.net shows that the jamesandersson.com domain is registered to "Sandra Thielecke" with a killathrill email address (ct@killathrill.com).

Then, further through that J. A. website, it claims he has placed 24th, 14th and 15th in Red Bull Air Races. Yet according to the Red Bull Air Race website, there are only 12 racers, so 12th place is dead last - it's impossible to place 14th, 15th or 24th. Disqualification, the most common placement listed on the J. A. website, is also not shown as an option.

Furthermore, a google search doesn't find him listed anywhere on the Red Bull Air Race site. I also tried this for the other races and several of the air shows listed on his site with no success.

The J.A. website also uses country code "GRB" when showing his listings in Red Bull Air Races. However, on the Red Bull Air Race website, Great Britain is represented as GBR, and Germany is represented as GER.

Another suspicious bit: Two copies of this video were posted on YouTube. Both were posted by users with no other postings (MrMarodeur and AirRacer89), 2 days apart. The users' favorite videos are almost identical.

The nail in the coffin, for me, came from the Red Bull Air Race website's About The Race section: Currently there are three different types of aircraft used in the Red Bull Air Race World Championship: the Edge 540, the MXS and the Extra 300SR. James Andersson's website claims he flies a Giles G-300. The Giles G-300 is single-seat, single engine kit plane, but it was produced by AkroTech Aviation, Inc. They went out of business in August 2000. They also have an empty weight of 431kg - and the James Andersson website claims ... reduction in weight to a basic weight of 650kg.

*sigh* So, in short, I think it's a complete fabrication, done with either a computer or an RC plane, either for KillaThrill or Red Bull. I was rather hoping it was real, 'cause that would have been one hell of a flight...[/quote]

Very good viral marketing, but none the less I'm gonna call this one Busted.

Gary

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:29 pm
by victor_alpha_charlie
Hang on.. I was being very sarcastic. Please tell me everyone else was as well? Look at the landing- it's fake..

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 7:36 pm
by HercFeend
Oh dear lord that is the most fakest (I know it's not a real word) thing I have ever seen....... The only thing that is missing is Virgil, Parker and a pink Roles Royce laugh.gif

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:15 pm
by A185F
I got this email as well. Awesome ! I don't think it is fake (well perhaps I don't want to) but there us alot so perhaps suggest it is. I wouln't be supprised if it was, it would be a very good faking job !

That Giles is lite as a fether with a souped up engine pulling around 485hp or close I think. It would have a Massive power to weight ratio which I guess could make it possible.

QUOTE
1) The "where's his right wing" and "oh my god, ruuuuuuuun!" or words to that effect sound nothing at all like what someone witnessing an imminent fatal plane crash would say[/quote]

Well if there was an out of control plane falling straight towards me, I would be running. And
screaming out for everyone else (who may not have noticed) to do so as well.
On the other side of that, why didn't the camera falla run ?!?!

QUOTE
3) The bounce on landing is in my view the most telling factor - unless the laws of physics have been redefined I don't see a real aeroplane of at least several hundred kilograms weight, with one highly aerodynamic lifting surface still attached, and moving at considerable speed, bouncing like that. An RC plane on the other hand, bounces exactly like that. Not to mention a lightweight taildragger would have almost certainly nosed over or ground looped in the event of a landing like that.[/quote]

I dissagree totally the with the bounce thing there it looks totally plausable. It's a taildragger. With that sring steal under carrage (or more likely titanium which has more bounce) droping from a hight like that will result in a ripper repel from earth. I've seen a few real aircraft bounce like that and myself had a few shockers of similar magnitude when learning how to handle the ol 180. I don't see how that would have nosed over unless it wrecked the wheels on the bounce. And, she did ground loop ! It just didnt result in much !

QUOTE
5) The pilot who emerges from the aircraft at the end doesn't appear to be wearing a headset, unless he removed it at the same time that he was shutting down the engine and opening the canopy.[/quote]

Cranking out manouvers like that, who on earth would want to ware some big clunky headset ?? Perhaps he had one of those in ear jobs, or maybe none at all ?? Just used a handheld when needing to use....???
On the engine shut down, that prop does stop pretty darn quickly, raised my eyebrows. Like a Rotax. Perhaps was geared but even then those geared 520s don't stop quite like that. On the other hand, a gas powerd rc doesnt stop like that either...

QUOTE
6) Although I may possibly be wrong, I sincerely doubt that an aircraft of that design could sustain controlled flight of any kind with one wing missing - regardless of the skill of the pilot. An F-15 traveling at high speed with its highly aerodynamic fuselage, yes, as has been done before for real, but an aerobatics aircraft traveling at reasonably low speed and with presumably only a tiny fraction of the total lift produced by the fuselage at any speed, very unlikely. I think the actual tendency of the aircraft would be to go into a completely uncontrollable spiral at which point no amount of control input would have any effect whatsoever.[/quote]

There is a video on youtube of an RC of a similar design loosing a wing and the falla does the same thing and bringing it in and saving it. The obvious difference is the power the RC had and he had it very well in countrol, flying round for a little. This falla doesnt really have it in control and due less power is falling pretty quick he just manages to keep it from loosing total control and manages to have enough omph to flick it over at the last minute. I think (if it is real) that he wouldnt have had enough control to guide to where it landed rather was lucky that that was more or less where it fell.
Remember with control input, It has MASSIVE EFFECTIVE control surfaces, perhaps just enough to keep him alive ??

The biggest givaway if it is fake for me though is, well, Look at the direction it spins !!! Although it could be explained by quickly cranking in massive imputs in the opposite direction and the countrols are large enough to force it into the opposite direction so it doesnt fall over the normal way.... ??? who knows.

Bloody awesome save if it real ! The biggest case of luckyness i've seen !
Bloody Awesome job if it's fake !!


PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:21 pm
by deaneb
Fake with a capital F - the wing sever is way to clean to be real as well as all the other obvious errors others have mentioned.

Deane

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 8:25 pm
by Peppermint
What are you guys on about? It's 100% real!!! biggrin.gif *end of easy-to-fool mind*

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:00 pm
by Adamski
FlyingKiwi wrote:
QUOTE (FlyingKiwi @ Nov 4 2008, 07:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
6) Although I may possibly be wrong, I sincerely doubt that an aircraft of that design could sustain controlled flight of any kind with one wing missing - regardless of the skill of the pilot. An F-15 traveling at high speed with its highly aerodynamic fuselage, yes, as has been done before for real, but an aerobatics aircraft traveling at reasonably low speed and with presumably only a tiny fraction of the total lift produced by the fuselage at any speed, very unlikely. I think the actual tendency of the aircraft would be to go into a completely uncontrollable spiral at which point no amount of control input would have any effect whatsoever.


My feeling is that it's an r/c plane - just looking at the flying/bumping characteristics.

I saw that documentary about the Israeli F-15. I don't think he got much lift from the fuselage (I'm not sure how the F-15 fuselage compares with something like an Su-27 or MiG-29 that definitely *does* create lift). The McDonnell Douglas engineers that arrived shortly later said that the pilot was basically flying a guided missile. Amazing, really.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:28 pm
by HercFeend
A friend of mine makes movies – did the course, you know, years of experience and all that jazz. Well anyway, one day we were having a chat about SFX, CGI etc and he explains to me this ‘holy grail’ that movie makers are still striving for – and we’re talking 100s of millions of dollar budget movies and movie makers here – it has a technical name (which I can’t remember), anyway, it’s to do with fooling the human eye and brain that something that is not real is real. The biggest give away is, and still remains movement. If something just doesn’t look or move right – it probably isn’t. We have preconceived ideas about thing but this is more than that, this is a lifetime of ‘seeing’ things and know how things should look......... how gravity acts on an object, how something should move....etc etc etc.

Seriously, or not seriously, is there really any debate as to this footage being pucker! I think now winkyy.gif Or is it.......... biggrin.gif

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:32 pm
by Naki

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:35 pm
by HercFeend
Sorry forgot to say - maybe someone else already did. re: Giant cones - real - used in Air Racing i.e. Red Bull Air Racing. Apologies if this is a repeat.

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:37 pm
by Naki
Adamski wrote:
QUOTE (Adamski @ Nov 4 2008, 10:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
My feeling is that it's an r/c plane - just looking at the flying/bumping characteristics.

I saw that documentary about the Israeli F-15. I don't think he got much lift from the fuselage (I'm not sure how the F-15 fuselage compares with something like an Su-27 or MiG-29 that definitely *does* create lift). The McDonnell Douglas engineers that arrived shortly later said that the pilot was basically flying a guided missile. Amazing, really.


See here

and

here

PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2008 9:48 pm
by creator2003






ive also slowed down the vid in my editing tools and still havent found the break in the footage from 47 sec onto the end of it ...


just on the wing thing if you were a camera dude would you track the wing that came of or the plane ?? come on id be tracking the plane ...



QUOTE
I agree with you. I'm a flight instructor with over 5000 hours. It is definitely possible to fly a plane in a 'knife edge' indefinitely given enough power, and you have plenty of power in an aerobatic plane like this. Of course the pilot would have to be extremely good to pull it off, as well.

Did you notice how the horizontal stabilizer touched the ground right before the plane slammed down? If this was not real, it was extremely well done.[/quote]

also the guy has a website

http://www.jamesandersson.com/


http://www.jamesandersson.com/video02.htmllink to the video on his site