Missing Jet over Atlantic

[Alex]

Contact was lost with the A330-200 at 0600Z (6pm NZST). As of now, it is over 1hr 30mins overdue, and no further contact has been made.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8076848.stm

Not good...

Alex

[ardypilot]

Oh god- not the best news to read right before I go to bed. Really hope to wake up tomorrow and hear everything has turned out safely for this flight.

[Chairman]

Even more not good. It's now more than 3 hours overdue, which is beyond the time it could have stayed in the air with the fuel it had on board, so one way or another .......

This seems to be the website where Air France are posting official statements
http://alphasite.airfrance.com/flight-air-...s-releases/?L=1

One talking head has put forward the comment that that far offshore there is no actual radar cover, what was lost was radio contact. If there was an electrical meltdown in the comms system but the fly-by-wire still worked the plane could have survivably ditched (c.f. Hudson River) outside the radar coverage area. The Brazilian Air Force is searching around the Fernando de Noronha archipelago but they cautioned that the search area could be three times the size of Europe.

Mum and Dad went over to Aus not too long after the US Airways A320 landed in the Hudson, which was only a month or so after the ANZ A320 went in at Perpignon. Normally when they go they choose a flight based on (1) cost and (2) arrival time. This time they chose a flight based on (1) Not Flying On An Airbus (2) cost (3) arrival time. I wonder how much more of that we'll see.

Gary

[benwynn]

And now, its gone.

[bennz]

There have been quite few scenarios about this possible crash .

Some point on the electric storm which effected the Fly-By-Wire systems and could have caused the crash, hence the manual override system hasn't been designed to cope with severe weather conditions.
Others mentioning an alert that was sent to the base in Paris from the Computer Diagnostic System regarding a mechanical/Electrical issue in the plane.
A330 is a very advanced aircraft with lots of flexibility in case emergency or failure. It has two backup Computer systems ( As PR1, PR2 , SEC1 and SEC2 )and 5 Anti Electric Shock units. So whatever is the reason should have been very severe.

But the sad reality is the possibility of no survivor of this incident. God bless them !

[Daniel]

By now it seems as if there is little hope for the jet and its passengers. Lets hope the passengers are safe somewhere.
There is such a large area of ocean where it could have gone down in and so it may never be found. Thoughts with the families of loved ones on the plane...

[BigBird]

Another tragedy involving an Airbus...

R.I.P to all those onboard

[A185F]

I can always count on NZFF to be the first to inform me of major aviation news.

Very sad news, hopefully the aircraft will be found soon and this mystery solved as to what has happened.

[Njbb1995]

Bummer,,
Airbus= not very good rep building.....
RIP to all dead.
terrible news

[creator2003]

There is News on 1ZB that some parts of the plane could of have been spotted in the ocean now ,RIP to those that have lost there lives...

Ive read that they think its due to a lightning strike, pilot reported electrical short circuits flying through a storm..
who knows ???

Not good anyway you look at it ...


EDIT: they have confirmed that what was spotted is that not of the airbus and are still looking

[bennz]

One person was saying a family member is calling one of the passengers and the phone still rings ( not going to answering machine ).
And we have telecom and Vodafone , even when you are standing middle of the town they have stupid issues !

[spongebob206]

Debris has been found

RIP

Link

[deaneb]

A sad and tragic event. What annoys me now is the way the media start bringing up the backgrounds of people that were on the flight - 3 doctors, an 11 year old going back to boarding school, babies and on and on it goes. Plane crashes don't discriminate !! So why point out the lives of a few when over 250 people died, seems a pointless exercise, designed only to tug on heart strings of the general public.

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (deaneb @ Jun 3 2009, 06:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A sad and tragic event. What annoys me now is the way the media start bringing up the backgrounds of people that were on the flight - 3 doctors, an 11 year old going back to boarding school, babies and on and on it goes. Plane crashes don't discriminate !! So why point out the lives of a few when over 250 people died, seems a pointless exercise, designed only to tug on heart strings of the general public.

Yeah, and I also dislike how they seem to be downplaying the significance of this horrible loss. It's nearly as big as Erebus in terms of fatalities, and what was tonight's headline news? A stupid cabinet MP resigning because of skeletons in his closet. So what's new?? Come on people. Why does it have to involve New Zealanders before it becomes major news?

You know what the next thing will be "The New Zealand Embassy in Brazil has confirmed that there were no New Zealand passengers on board" as though that somehow makes the event 'ok'.

[Chairman]

There was a good post about this on Dave's Flight Level 390 blog, and some good Q&A going on in the comments. Last time I checked, which was after the fuel would have run out but before anything was found, there were about 60 comments and the blog had been mentioned on the BBC website.

Comments have now been disabled on that blog and all the comments have gone, right back to the original posts in 2004. I've never known that to happen before ! I guess they got a bit out of hand.

I hope that when comments are enabled again the old ones are still there, there was a wealth of information in them.

Gary


edit - comments are still there and all preserved, there's just no mention of them on the front pages of the blog.

[ardypilot]

QUOTE (spongebob206 @ Jun 3 2009, 03:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Debris has been found

RIP

Link

Turned out those debris were not from the Air France flight- just in case y'all missed this on pretty much every news bullitin in the last few days:

Searchers found two bodies and a briefcase containing a ticket for Air France Flight 447 in the Atlantic Ocean close to where the jetliner is believed to have crashed... Full Story

I was beginning to think this was like a real life version of LOST!

[Alex]

Apparently AF had been having some issues with the PITOT systems on their A330s. Had gone to Airbus but apparently no solution from them, and Air France had been gradually replacing the PITOT tubes/systems (the report was unclear) on their A330 fleet. The aircraft operating Flight 447 was one that had a PITOT system yet to be replaced.

This is from American media. Pinch/es of salt required.

Alex

[Ian Warren]

This is press release #12 from the Air France website. It's more reliable than 'merkin media but will still have been through le spin docteurs so again is à prendre avec une pincée de sel.

If I'm reading it right ...
- Airbus issued a recommendation to update the probes on A320s to help with pitot icing issues
- AF requested help from Airbus with pitot icing issues on A330s and A340s
- Airbus were initially unable to offer a solution but then thought the new A320 probes might help there too and requested some test
- AF began replacing the probes on the A330/A340 fleet without waiting for the test results
- The plane that went down had not yet been modified

FWIW Dave at FL390 is tending towards the plane simply being swatted out of the sky by a thunderstorm. In a reply to a comment that has really stuck in my mind he said "There are several high altitude break-ups of jet airliners. In contemporary times, they are rare because we have better radar, ATC help, and overall training. Aviation knowledge is built on dead men's bones."

QUOTE

Press release N° 12

Update on anemometric sensors
Following the many questions which have appeared in the media on the issue of the Pitot probes in its fleet (the Pitot probe is an instrument which measures the air speed of the aircraft), Air France wishes to make the following clarifications:

1) Malfunctions in the Pitot probes on the A 320 led the manufacturer to issue a recommendation in September 2007 to change the probes. This recommendation also applies to long-haul aircraft using the same probes and on which a very few incidents of a similar nature had occurred.

It should be noted that a recommendation from the manufacturer gives the operator total freedom to apply the corresponding guidelines fully, partially or not at all. Should flight safety be concerned, the manufacturer, together with the authorities, issues a mandatory service bulletin followed by an airworthiness directive (AD).

The recommendation to change the probes was implemented by Air France on its A320 fleet where this type of incident involving water ingress had been observed. It was not implemented on the A340/330s as no such incidents had been noted.

2) Starting in May 2008 Air France experienced incidents involving a loss of airspeed data in flight, in cruise phase on A340s and A330s. These incidents were analysed with Airbus as resulting from pitot probe icing for a few minutes, after which the phenomenon disappeared. Discussions subsequently took place with the manufacturer. Air France asked for a solution which would reduce or eliminate the occurrence of these incidents. In response to these requests, the manufacturer indicated that the probe model recommended for the A320 was not designed to prevent such incidents which took place at cruise levels, and reiterated the operational procedures well-known to the crews.

In the first quarter of 2009 laboratory tests suggested, however, that the new probe could represent a valuable improvement to reduce the incidence of high altitude airspeed discrepancy resulting from pitot probe icing, and an in service evaluation in real flight conditions was proposed by Airbus. Without waiting for the in service evaluation, Air France decided to replace all its probes and the programme was launched on 27 April 2009.

Without making any assumptions as to a possible link with the causes of the accident, Air France speeded up this programme and reminded its pilots of the current instructions issued by the manufacturer to cope with the loss of airspeed data.[/quote]

Last edited by Chairman on Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Alex @ Jun 7 2009, 11:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The aircraft operating Flight 447 was one that had a PITOT system yet to be replaced.
Alex

ArrrrrBuuuuss ..mm so slow in replacing parts , well all honesty that happens all over the world with all airliners and airlines (quik fix , thumbup off we go) , I wonder , how closely connected to the lost of the ANZ A320 ? .. improper readings in cloud at such a low level , no chance !

[bennz]

Here is a list of ACARS messages sent by the A330 (F-GZCP GE-CF6) to Air France:

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/3410/acarsaf447e.png

To make it simple for you here is the guide line to the error codes:

27 = Flight Controls
22 = Auto Flight
34 = Navigation
38 = Water/Waste
21 = Air Conditioning