NZFF

 Some excellent close-ups HERE

Thanks for posting, a brilliant memorial. Would almost be worth the trip over to see that.

Today most still don't even know or still learning about the dedication , today minds its a memory for all involved and who's side they were on .

Glass Half Full, or Half Empty?
I'll go for empty...

The reason it took so long to get a memorial to the bombers is the nature of their task.
A bit unpleasant, in WW2 especially, it resulted in rather a lot of "collateral damage".
Many regard the process as acting on civilian morale rather than slowing down war production.

One of the true horrors of WW2 (and there were some big ones) was the bombing of Dresden in February 1945.
For two days, Lancasters and Fortresses dropped incendiary bombs, creating huge firestorms that killed perhaps 100,000 civilians.
An internal RAF memocasts some light on this astonishing act, perpetrated on a largely refugee population.

Extraordinary that in 2012 the Bombers are glorified.
If the Germans had won, and erected a memorial to the SS, it would have amounted to much the same thing.
Good job the Allies won, otherwise "Bomber" Harris might've found himself answering War Crimes charges at Nuremburg.

I did have to get this off my chest, sorry; my own view is that wars should be remembered for the possible instruction they give, and not glorified.
The cenotaph, yes; the statue, no.

Charl wrote:

QUOTE (Charl @ Jul 15 2012,5:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The reason it took so long to get a memorial to the bombers is the nature of their task.
A bit unpleasant, in WW2 especially, it resulted in rather a lot of "collateral damage".
Many regard the process as acting on civilian morale rather than slowing down war production.

I look at it in another way , we all had people who did and die family , friends of friends .. I am a Warmonger but for the history , people think of the 'Titanic' for example and how the cattle class's perished , i look at WWII , WWI .. heck's all War .. the aerial and navy side of it ...

I personal think this and posted thread is great maybe to teach the people from all sides .. War is War .. years on we all gallop to check out whoever's side they were on .. WWII - Korea - Vietnam i have a connection to , good thing is also understanding the out side as well and appreciate , ... we can see this with the admiration off all included .. come Civilian or the other side , 'War is War'

So in a way this could be a Tribute in its own way .

The bombing was to destroy civilian morale AND to slow war production. According to Albert Speer, it very nearly did both. I read a book about Arthur Harris a while ago which had a lot of stuff from Speer and the effect that the bombing was having on the ability for the Germans to keep up was astonishing. Combined with the USAAF daylight bombing campaign, it did a lot to shorten the war. Bomber Command was also involved with the bombing of Germanys oil production but this is largely ignored. The efforts of Bomber Command and the USAAF prior to D-Day made the landings a success and the mining of German shipping routes saved the RN a lot of resources.

At the end of hostilities Arthur Harris' effort to shorten the war was acknowleged by 'Ike' but ignored by the very people who prepared the target list during the war ie: Clement Atlee and his left wing croonies.

It is not fair to the men or the machines to look on the events of 60 years ago with todays idealogy. Their efforts to do a difficult job and do it well should be recognised.


And by the way, there are SS memorials in Germany.

Sorry double post

chopper_nut wrote:

QUOTE (chopper_nut @ Jul 15 2012,5:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is not fair to the men or the machines to look on the events of 60 years ago with todays idealogy. Their efforts to do a difficult job and do it well should be recognised

Very good point, even more reason to remember the men themselves, not glorify what they were required to do.
So: cenotaph, not statue.
As to SS memorials? I don't know of any, and in a country where showing a Swastika is illegal, I very much doubt they would have the same import as the Bomber statue.
The victors will (of course) write the history, the vanquished will be made to mouth the necessary truths to suit.
You have to try to peer past that bias to see how it was.

Ian Warren wrote:

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Jul 15 2012,5:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... we can see this with the admiration off all included .. come Civilian or the other side , 'War is War'
So in a way this could be a Tribute in its own way .

Yes, well said.

And great to be able to put a point of view, without the thread becoming deranged...

Charl wrote:

QUOTE (Charl @ Jul 15 2012,9:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and in a country where showing a Swastika is illegal, I very much doubt they have the same import as the Bomber statue.

I think in today's world has no respect for what WWII s Swastika .. the Waffen SS have/had did lost any connection to the Luftwaffe or to the RAF , USAF or even USSR as it was then , only for the historical symbol , still required for us historians , the Bomber statue is for one group , Bomber Command .. with all involved , was still the good guy's and bad on both sides .

'End off the day' , boy that is so old and so used , makes people think .... So must be working .

I think that the statue is a memorial to the men and the machines but its also important to remember the role they had in ending the conflict. As to the SS, there is a misconception that the SS just ran death camps. Most of the SS were just foot sloggers so yes there are SS memorials in Germany. German war memorials

Its another long overdue memorial, probably the last one from WW2. Now we can start looking at recognising servicemen from later conflicts. There isnt a memorial to Kiwis in Vietnam yet.....

Interesting link, thanks Nick.
Good write-up about the day here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-21...d-memorial.html
Lancaster dropped poppies on the Royals, the Germans stayed away.
The British gummint is having none of it, and so the vets have to come up with the 700 grand themselves, presumably the Royals are helping too... you can help by mailing your money to the address given in the article.

Amazing piece of history , had many a good chin wag with many at Aeronautical society meetings , they really appreciate and enjoy our lust to remember .. lotta people ignorant or have no history interest and with stupid words keep saying , 'stop living in the past' ... those type of people repeat the history ... one of my favourite sayings and so true 'A memory of convenience' .

Good link that one, Ill never forget the sound of a Lancaster. Might have to donate money to that cause.