Queenstown - Napier. Piaggio P 180 "Avanti II"

[hasegawa]

I have no idea if there is even one Piaggio “Avanti II” in New Zealand... but today at least one flew over your heads... mine. Since I bought it, other machines have had a really hard time getting noticed. I'm just thrilled with this “thing.” Everything about it is just right. It flies well, has that “wow factor” of something out of the ordinary, and is a piece of Italy, like driving a Ferrari or drinking a Martini.

[Charl]

So much better than a Starship...
I agree with your delight in the design, so much thoughtful engineering - as I recall the fuselage shape even contributes significant lift.
And the aesthetic that comes with it, look at the Lear windscreen and tail strakes.
None in NZ alas, but definitely on my FS wishlist, sooner or later they will foolishly put it on sale

[cowpatz]

Certainly an unusual design, but practical. It took a while to catch on due to its radical design.

[hasegawa]

„Yes, compared to the Beechcraft Starship I from Black Square, the Avanti immediately inspired confidence in me. The Collins Pro Line 21 avionics suite – familiar from other aircraft – makes the cockpit pleasantly straightforward. The Starship's futuristic avionics? Visionary, yes, but for me almost intimidating. So while the Starship sits in my hangar, I rarely fly it. The Avanti II, on the other hand? Fearless, joyful – like a little Italian Ferrari among airplanes.

There are many small details that aren’t obvious at first glance. Recently, I came across a forum where the Avanti was compared with the Pilatus PC-12. Naturally, the PC-12 pilots complained – as with dachshund owners: everyone loves their own dog.

And then there’s winter in Germany. Icing can be dangerous for PTL aircraft – the PC-12 needs propeller de-icing, and if you forget it, things can end badly. The Avanti II is smarter: it flies higher, often avoiding the critical zone, can climb and descend steeply, and hot air from the engines is directed straight over the propellers – better than any conventional de-icing system. Simply a thoroughly clever aircraft.“

[Charl]

Ah but sadly, there is no free lunch.
Arising from that engine configuration, it is very noisy, and so extremely unpopular among the airport neighbours.

[hasegawa]

Well, the “too noisy” argument is usually brought up by the usual suspects – green-minded opinion makers who would happily see General Aviation banned altogether. That kind of narrative sells well in Germany and Switzerland.
But there’s another layer: the Avanti is an Italian aircraft competing in an American market. Faster than a King Air, less fuel, jet-like comfort, and built outside Wichita – not exactly what the big US manufacturers wanted to see.
So, the “noise” label was a convenient stick to beat it with. Ironically, inside the cabin it is remarkably quiet, much more pleasant than many turboprops of the same class.

In other words: part politics, part economics, part myth. The Avanti became a scapegoat – just like the Mitsubishi MU-2 before it.

GA / Small Business Aircraft Noise Comparison (approximate)
Aircraft External Take-off (dB(A)) Cabin Noise Cruise (dB(A)) Comments / Subjective
Piaggio P.180 Avanti II 79–80 68 High-frequency sound, cabin surprisingly quiet
Beechcraft King Air 200/350 78–79 72–75 Classic turboprop sound, more droning inside
Mitsubishi MU-2B-60 81–82 74–76 Loud, high-speed prop; reputation partly due to US safety regs
Fairchild Swearingen Metro III 82–83 75–77 Narrow, droning cabin; louder inside than Avanti
Pilatus PC-12 NG 77–78 70–72 Quiet, smooth turboprop; good cabin comfort
Learjet 35 83–85 75–78 Clearly louder; EU operation only with hushkits
Dassault Falcon 20 (early) 84–86 78–80 Loud early jet; characteristic scream
Cirrus Vision Jet SF50 (1st series) 79–81 80–85 Cabin very loud, Gehörschutz recommended; Collier Trophy
Cirrus Vision Jet G2 79–80 70–72 Much improved insulation, comfortable cabin

So, in numbers, the Avanti is not louder than a King Air or Metro – actually a bit less.
The real difference is in the sound character: the Avanti’s higher frequencies make it seem harsher, while the Learjet 35 is, in fact, clearly louder overall.The Learjet 35 is still flown in Europe, but only with hushkits to meet EU Chapter 3 noise standards. Some airports with strict local limits may still restrict it. The Mitsubishi MU-2, on the other hand, never had EU noise restrictions, although it carries a certain “reputation” due to US safety regulations (SFAR 108), not noise.

This nicely complements the noise comparison: the Avanti, King Air, or MU-2 are quieter in practice than many small jets, even if the Avanti’s high-frequency sound makes it feel louder.

[Charl]

Watch on youtube.com

[hasegawa]

I think it's fair to listen to others as well.
Bechcraft B. 60 Duke Piston
https://youtu.be/5_Sz79HEz0Q?si=Pc8R3vc5bzcPFPkm
Mitsubishi Mu 2
https://youtu.be/om6yTgwvNQs?si=lx_eS3KFf-A1YHiJ
Beechcraft Kingair
https://youtu.be/PHqjUCjHw6A?si=H9O4_QEnK34B7LVF
Pilatus PC 12
https://youtu.be/tEVMyMa72ho?si=VKr2-p4S5w3S1qp
Cirrus Vision Jet, think it is the new G2+
https://youtu.be/KoaOw-tn_Mg?si=0xm-Gy5OYATpaRqY
Gates Leardjet 35A with Husyhkits
https://youtube.com/shorts/H7bjrPVy6FE? ... eT8z05yKDS
Grumman Gulfstream II (1975)
https://youtu.be/c2rKxSZH_ks?si=jCuQbnUg_EF_cgYl
Grumman G 650ER
https://youtube.com/shorts/uvNGayIaFyY? ... tpzv72gMYu

I think it's the very specific “singing, higher-frequency noise” that makes the Avanti so unpopular.

[jankees]

such a weird looking aircraft, but nice shots

[hasegawa]

The Avanti is my fourth canard aircraft. After the Rutan Long Ez, the Velocity XL, and the Beechcraft Starship, it is the first one that does not resemble a “modular aircraft” or a Californian fair-weather flyer. The Beech Starship looks sleeker than the Avanti, but its cockpit is too cluttered for my taste. The Avanti, with its Collins Proline 21 avionics, is more comfortable, and the whole aircraft makes a better impression on me... But of course, others may see it differently.

[cowpatz]

It is definitely a striking design for sure and the canard configuration has great anti stall characteristics. A surprisingly small wing area.
I might have a look at adding this one to the collection.

[emfrat]

After a bit of digging, I find I installed the FSD P180 in my FS2004 back in 2008, and a bit later there was a native FSX conversion which I installed in my FS10. I think Manuel Noriega was involved. From memory. the readme stated that the aircraft was licenced for single pilot operations. I hope someone does one for AFS...

[hasegawa]

Thank you for mentioning Mr. Noriega. I appreciate his work and currently fly his aircraft, such as the Caproni Vizzola J22 Venura and the Nardi 333. I am very pleased that we are also discussing unusual aircraft, rare designs, and vintage aircraft here. I have left all the German forums because they are too patronizing, leave little room for discussion, and are heavily biased toward Airbus...