NZFF

This is open for members to express their preference on how they would like to see the Screenshot Competition voting page set up

In fact I'd go a step further Doug and also remove the votes 'got' so far.
That way people would actually be voting on what they thought was the best and not getting biased by the higher count on some other picture.

As a tally ,, at the bottom of the page it could show the total of all votes cast so far. (Collectively)
Just a thought

Thanks for doing a great Job Doug ,,, Jim

Numbers worked pretty well I thought.
No individual vote tally would be worth investigating, I know it's been looked at before but surely?
Every month it goes like this: a few votes here, there, then a break! and clear front-runners.
Folk coming in to vote toward the end feel they can't "waste" their vote on a shot apparently out of contention.

You'd see a wider spread of voting, guaranteed.
This would be less discouraging to those who often don't pick up that one vote or so.

Charl wrote:

QUOTE (Charl @ Sep 6 2013,7:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Numbers worked pretty well I thought.
No individual vote tally would be worth investigating, I know it's been looked at before but surely?
Every month it goes like this: a few votes here, there, then a break! and clear front-runners.
Folk coming in to vote toward the end feel they can't "waste" their vote on a shot apparently out of contention.

You'd see a wider spread of voting, guaranteed.
This would be less discouraging to those who often don't pick up that one vote or so.

Yep I agree completely with Charl

whats even more interesting is that this thread is up to almost 100 views,..and only 3 replies....

Charl wrote:

QUOTE (Charl @ Sep 6 2013,7:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No individual vote tally would be worth investigating, I know it's been looked at before but surely?

The voting has always been a simple forum Poll, using the built-in poll software -- exactly the same as the poll in this thread. Anything else would mean hacking the poll code, which would affect all polls, or writing a custom voting module. In the past, we didn't mess around with the software, mainly because nobody had the skills, but the current admin might be different. Or they could pay someone to write this.

Adrian Brausch wrote:

QUOTE (Adrian Brausch @ Sep 6 2013,10:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

whats even more interesting is that this thread is up to almost 100 views,..and only 3 replies....

Yes, but 14 votes at my last count. Which kind of makes sense, when you consider that you need to be logged in to vote, and that on average less than 20% of visitors bother to log in. To me, this is main cause of any issues with the numbers actually contributing -- such as the number of votes. Originally, a much larger percentage used the auto-login feature, but because this is a 'set and forget' thing, a lot of them promptly forgot their password, and when the forum reset the cookies -- which doesn't happen often, but does have to happen occasionally -- they just stopped logging in. So even if they wanted to vote, it becomes too much of an ordeal to reset their password, login and vote.

Dare I suggest that by not logging in they can see the votes?
I'm in the hide the vote numbers camp.

I also think that names and total votes should remain hidden until the end of the contest. This eliminates all bias and leaves the viewer with only their minds eye and and a preference to vote on .

Adrian Brausch wrote:

QUOTE (Adrian Brausch @ Sep 6 2013,10:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep I agree completely with Charl

I completely agree with Adrian

Adrian Brausch wrote:

QUOTE (Adrian Brausch @ Sep 6 2013,11:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

whats even more interesting is that this thread is up to almost 100 views,..and only 3 replies....

Go without saying .... many people could enter but go across em like the banner above at 20,000 ft

000rick000 wrote:

QUOTE (000rick000 @ Sep 6 2013,12:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I also think that names and total votes should remain hidden until the end of the contest. This eliminates all bias and leaves the viewer with only their minds eye and and a preference to vote on .

Peoples do get swayed by popular percent .. others vote for themselves ... and others for a great screen , I think the 'number thing' did have some affect on results which is better than the name , been down this path before about hiding votes and recall there was a few issues in setting that up or maybe be the time factor .

steelsporran wrote:

QUOTE (steelsporran @ Sep 6 2013,11:08 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dare I suggest that by not logging in they can see the votes?

You are right, this is the way it works, but anyone can see the votes, whether logged in or not, it just requires clicking on and extra button when you are logged in.

I'm not against the idea of hiding the number of votes, It's just that it isn't as easy as people think, and that under normal circumstances it would cost money to implement, for what would ultimately affect the vote by a few percent at most, and be of use to only 30-40 members who enter?

Lately I've been voting as soon as I can, which prevents me from even wondering where my vote would be best spent. I actually look at the shots as they are posted during the month, so the good ones already stand out. Some people here seem to think that the vote is affected by too many votes based on squinting at a thumbnail, or trying to affect the outcome by waiting till the last minute, but really the main thing which affects the voting is the fact that 80% of the voters have a vested interest. Maybe a group email for a couple of months to encourage people to vote, including steps they can take to make it easier. 100 votes and 35 entries would certainly even out any 'controlling' or manipulated votes.

Personally the only manipulation I've ever seen here is the odd newbie who enlists his friends to vote for him, so we see a lot of early voting, but invariably they run out of friends before the end of the voting, and I don't think this has ever resulted in a win.

I didn't actually think of that side of things Rob, (setting it up) and that being the case ,, I withdraw my "brilliant old idea".
The Guys that do all the background work here are great and do a marvelous job ,, my thanks to them.
There's no need to create more work for such a small gain..

Thanks Guys ,,, Jim

Here's something else to consider. No changes to your entry after submission.

steelsporran wrote:

QUOTE (steelsporran @ Sep 6 2013,2:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's something else to consider. No changes to your entry after submission.

Hmmm , like window wipers blades sometimes .... now ya see em , now ya don't .... never have i wiped a perfectly good screen with a "Tea Towel" unless I've been told to throw it back into the washer !

sjimc2000 wrote:

QUOTE (sjimc2000 @ Sep 6 2013,12:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't actually think of that side of things Rob, (setting it up) and that being the case ,, I withdraw my "brilliant old idea".
The Guys that do all the background work here are great and do a marvelous job ,, my thanks to them.
There's no need to create more work for such a small gain..

Thanks Guys ,,, Jim

As my post does come across as quite anti, I'll just add this -- I did say " under normal circumstances", which wouldn't stop any administrator with a few coding skills whipping something up. This is what I do with my own website, but this is a bit hit and miss, and I wouldn't want to risk the forum with my 'skills'.

toprob wrote:

QUOTE (toprob @ Sep 6 2013,1:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As my post does come across as quite anti

You Rob??? Anti?? Get-outta-here !!! ....

It is quite obvious that members would prefer to vote for a number and not have the name showing so this will be addopted from now on it does involve a little more work for me but I can live with that

It is very encouraging to see all this feedback and suggestions I will attempt to answer them the best I can

000rick000 wrote:

QUOTE (000rick000 @ Sep 6 2013,11:35 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I also think that names and total votes should remain hidden until the end of the contest. This eliminates all bias and leaves the viewer with only their minds eye and and a preference to vote on .

If it was possible to be done without rewriting the whole voting program we would be doing it now
It still could be done by doing away with the voting thread and have members either email or PM their votes but it would be a hell of a lot of extra work for me.

steelsporran wrote:

QUOTE (steelsporran @ Sep 6 2013,1:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's something else to consider. No changes to your entry after submission.

The changing of images after posting I find OK and it doesn't change the voting. There is a cut off point of one hour before closing so that it gives me the chance of getting the voting page setup to post ASP after closing
There are also on some occasions that I have to ask a member to change their image to comply with the rules (This probably would not occur if member were to actually read the rules before entering)

toprob wrote:

QUOTE (toprob @ Sep 6 2013,1:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

which wouldn't stop any administrator with a few coding skills whipping something up. This is what I do with my own website, but this is a bit hit and miss, and I wouldn't want to risk the forum with my 'skills'.

Rob if you or anyone else with the coding skills think they can write up a voting program that can hide the votes and get it to me or one of the admins I am sure we could give it some testing on here to make sure it worked OK before introducing it to the screenshot comp voting

dbcunnz wrote:

QUOTE (dbcunnz @ Sep 6 2013,2:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rob if you or anyone else with the coding skills think they can write up a voting program that can hide the votes and get it to me or one of the admins I am sure we could give it some testing on here to make sure it worked OK before introducing it to the screenshot comp voting

Really, as I don't use IPB regularly, I won't be doing this. But there might be some simple ways of doing this without having to hack anything -- here's one solution which might be useful -- Poll Permission mod

(I actually forget which version NZFF runs, though.)

toprob wrote:

QUOTE (toprob @ Sep 6 2013,3:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

(I actually forget which version NZFF runs, though.)

Let's just say ... its not the latest.
We are planning an upgrade some time in the next month or so, can look at coding changes (or maybe even built-in support in the current version) for this sort of thing after the upgrade.

why does a screenshot entry have to have anything beside it at all whether its a number or name,..why not just the pic and the voting thingemywhatsit,...surely the number or name is only usful to Doug ?. People voting for their own pics...its very very annoying,..I have completely by chance been browsing the screenshot voting page over my time at NZFF and have seen whos also reading at the same time (yes I do actually look at that often..dont know why but I do lol),..and low and behold another vote popped up on the members entry who was reading at the same time as me,....I won't name anyone...you know who your are . It has to be said that they didnt actually win the prize at the time...but still not acceptable....cheats (not good ones thankfully).