Two dead in mid-air smash

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (dazza28 @ Feb 18 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey just found out this morning that the young guy killed in the Cessna was one of my son,s teachers son

It was bad anothe that it happened just up my sisters street and on my Birthday.

But now knowing the family involved not good

I was just thinking I knew a teacher from a school in Kapiti with the same surname. As soon as I read it I figured it had to be some relative. That's really awful.

[Anthony]

QUOTE (Daniel @ Feb 18 2008, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The fees would probably increase (well at least i think so).
But i think if they do put in a tower it will increase safety (something you dont want to compromise by money)

Yer very true. Money would be an issue, as it probably would increase fees and costs, but should there be a price on safety?

I think the increased safety would outweigh the increased costs.

Cheers
Anthony Harris

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Daniel @ Feb 18 2008, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a sad incident. I wonder if they will put in an ATC tower down at Paraparaumu?

Considering they pulled Ardmore's tower service while they were moving 200,000+ movements annually (more than Auckland Intl at the time) I'd say it's the last thing Airways will do. This issue really gets me, and now 3 people are dead. Although it rips me, I'm avoiding saying much about it on here and instead letting my blog do the talking once I've had a chance to digest and write.

[Yak52aholic]

I even caught a pic not so long ago of the 152 in the crash:


sorry about the blurriness
RIP to those involved

[Kelburn]

Can someone explain what caused the crash?
I heard somewhere that the engine detached from the plane.
Was it pilot error?

What's even worse is that the aeroplane pilot was 17 and the helicopter pilot was 18 along with the instructor whom was 20 and was due to get married in one month. Such a bad loss of life. RIP

[victor_alpha_charlie]

QUOTE (Kelburn @ Feb 18 2008, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What's even worse is that the aeroplane pilot was 17 and the helicopter pilot was 18 along with the instructor whom was 20 and was due to get married in one month. Such a bad loss of life. RIP

You're ages are wrong. They were 17, 19 and 30.

[Kelburn]

sorry. I meant 30 but pushed he 2 instead of the three and sorry again 19 is actually correct.

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Kelburn @ Feb 18 2008, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can someone explain what caused the crash?
I heard somewhere that the engine detached from the plane.
Was it pilot error?

I think stuff like this is best left up to the investigators. Speculation is a really bad thing imho. There's always so much misinformation floating around that you don't know what to believe.

[Stumpy]

Agreed, they may not ever find out what really happened. But very sad.

[HardCorePawn]

RIP

QUOTE (Impressions of a Pilot)

Flight is freedom in its purest form,
To dance with the clouds which follow a storm;

To roll and glide, to wheel and spin,
To feel the joy that swells within;

To leave the earth with its troubles and fly,
And know the warmth of a clear spring sky;

Then back to earth at the end of a day,
Released from the tensions which melted away.

Should my end come while I am in flight,
Whether brightest day or darkest night;

Spare me your pity and shrug off the pain,
Secure in the knowledge that I'd do it again;

For each of us is created to die,
And within me I know,
I was born to fly.

"â€￾ Gary Claud Stokor[/quote]

[spongebob206]

My thoughts are with those chaps and their families.

I understand the 152 was commencing a turn. High wing aircraft limit your vision into the turn. I know you look around before the turn, but if in a climing turn, the wing again could limit your vision above.

Don't like to speculate, but all pilots had a high level of experience. PPL Fixed wing, "A" cat CPL rotary and SPL completing a PPL flight test.
I feel this was a freak accident at an uncontrolled field.

I also personally believe high volume airports like NZPP and NZAR should be controlled. These are used for flight training and need to be monitored.

I do not believe cost would increase much at all.

Remember back 20 yrs we had controlled fields and no landing fees.
These were funded from our rates.
Whats changed?
In NZWU we now have to pay for waste removal, the library, airport etc as users but the rates have still increased.

WHY? TOO MANY COUNCILERS.

Drop a couple of councilers per year will fund a controlled airport!
What do you all think?

[creator2003]

Well its very sad indeed ,flying is safer than driving a car "fact" this was just a accident where 3 people lost there lives "very sad"
What gets me is there was another 8 people lost there lives on the roads this week in NZ "did ya hear about them like this ?" they need"car traffic" control towers , not air traffic control towers ,
if they reported there intentions better and made sure they where no where near each other this wouldn't of properly happened , skilled or not someone made a mistake , when was the last smash in the sky there at NZPP ?
or for that matter in NZ with uncontrolled areas ?

last one i heard of was outta Massey NZPM with the students headon "don't they have a controlled area and tower ?"

opinion

[Kelburn]

Paraparaumu should be created as it's hard to execute a forced landing there since, if I can remember from my flight there well enough, it is too suburban. The only option is the sea but that is a bit of a long flight to make if you were where the fixed wing pilot was.
Ardmore is easier cause (if what I can remember from pictures is right - correct me if I'm wrong) has cow paddaocks which would be safer to make a forced landing into that a suburban street.
Also @ NZWN the circuit is 90% over the sea so I'm guessing that it is safer to land on the sea than into a house etc.

One easy solution that might be more cost effective (in long term) would be to have a heliport type aerodrome in a pathc of land a bit further away from the airport, thus making both circuits further away from each other (but money is precious)

I also agree with creator2003, why don't we take much notice of car accidents? Teens kill themselves every year on the road (at school some kids were talking about their experiences (and one said cause he was in the U.S. for a while, he started to drive on the right side of the road by accident here - not taking it seriously at all))

[spongebob206]

I Agree Creator 2003 and apprieciate you opinion,

What I am saying is high volume training airports should be controlled.
I personally use the road VS air fatalities to my wife. I forever explain how a 2 meter error on the road has catasophic headon implications, however i can make the same mistake in the air and as long as I am in control and am aware of all traffic in the area, my passengers and I are safe and well.

What I am concluding is that all airports with a high traffic rate whether commercial or private should be maintained.

We all want to go home to our families.

Everyone makes mistakes in the air at some time, either with distraction or stupidness, with other aircraft close by there is no forgiving.

The more aircraft, the more chance of a collision, especially in training. NZPP has one of the best airports in the country for training due to position, weather conditions and Training Facilities, why should it be not controlled?

What do you think?

[victor_alpha_charlie]

People are trying to complain that a 17 year old shouldn't be flying a plane. Some people are such F*cking idiots it makes you want to hunt them down and shoot them. Or is that just me?

[spongebob206]

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Feb 19 2008, 08:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People are trying to complain that a 17 year old shouldn't be flying a plane. Some people are such F*cking idiots it makes you want to hunt them down and shoot them. Or is that just me?

I totally agree VAC

Age is not an issue, whether you are 17 or 40 you gain the same experience in the air!
Actually truth be known, the 17 would learn and retain the infomation faster.

[Alfashark]

QUOTE (spongebob206 @ Feb 20 2008, 05:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree VAC

Age is not an issue, whether you are 17 or 40 you gain the same experience in the air!
Actually truth be known, the 17 would learn and retain the infomation faster.

Im with you guys on this one! The training syllabus doesnt change with regards to how old the student is.
All this comes down to is media sensationalism, after all - we've been welcoming 15yr olds to the roads for god knows how many years now, yet as has been pointed out above, that is many times more risky.
Hell, I had gone solo in a glider a few days after my 14th birthday, had my QGP (international equivelant to a PPL for gliders) by 15, and was almost done with my C-Cat in gliders by the time i was 16...

[creator2003]

Shot me ,i think its to young to be going solo for many reasons , i also think the drinking age is to young and driving age on the roads,
most of the time its your peers that ruin it for you, maybe the odd one or two that are adult before there time etc should be learning these things .
i know of 17 year olds making bad decisions all the time ,with drinking /smoking drugs /carrying knives guns , beating each other up /tagging the local supermarket , just being kids "yes adults do this aswell but lower %"
do i want them flying over my kids school or driving past them ?"hell no " i reckon they should be zoned to non city/suburban areas till they have full ppl , as for cars they should all have minis or scooters till they are 20-25
pig headed aye
the % of young adults that do stupid things far out weighs the ones that don't , that % ruins it for the ones growing up quicker than there stupid peers
if you are 15-18 ,have a think about the way some of your peers act around girls or how they talk about what they did in the weekend without a thought of the danger they put themselfs and others into ..
EDIT:shouldn't of asked the question

As for towers i dont think it would change much with or without ,
training airfields well i dont think they need them ether as 80% of the airfields they would be learning to fly into would be uncontrolled anyway 'so they kinda gotta learn it this way .

QUOTE

People are trying to complain that a 17 year old shouldn't be flying a plane. Some people are such F*cking idiots it makes you want to hunt them down and shoot them[/quote]

I know some of you know these guys and i do feel this young guy had his head screwed on the right way from what ive heard in the media ,so im not really trying to pick on him at all ,
just pointing out what some older ppls think about teenagers and driving /flying

opinion "this would change if i saw these teenagers acting there age alot more and being responsible"
maybe i just live in a bad area for dickheads

Last edited by creator2003 on Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Matthew]

QUOTE (spongebob206 @ Feb 20 2008, 05:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I totally agree VAC

Age is not an issue, whether you are 17 or 40 you gain the same experience in the air!
Actually truth be known, the 17 would learn and retain the infomation faster.

Exactly

I totally agree

[spongebob206]

Fair call.
Good points. maybe a set training area for students solo until PPL is a good option.

However, I was Solo 16, PPL at 17. I admit I was a nutter on the road, but due to the excellent training I recieved from my instructors I feel I was totally competent and safe in the air at that age.
I'm 40 now and haven't even scratched an aircraft of any size or type.

If you are trained right you will not be a danger.

In saying that though I witnessed some dangerous flying from what I could only call incompetent pilots. One I remember vivdly was in his late 20s at the final stages of his CPL. God help any who flew with him!

Some have brilliant academic skills, but when hands on were just plain usless.

You have to be aware of your surrounding and one step ahead all the time.

So I still feel 17 is not too young. If age was an issue we would be seeing multiple air accidents as I beleive over 50% of student would fall into this age group.

Does anyone know the stats?

Cheers