Alternative Jet Fuel: Promising Options, No Quick Fixes

[greaneyr]

May be of interest to some. Seems Air NZ are now saying Algae holds the most promise. I guess it shows the Jatropha news was more of a media push. They're clearly keeping their options open.

http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/06/alternative-jet.html

"The price of jet fuel is making running an airline these days close to impossible. And while carriers seem genuinely interested in going green, they'd also like to stay solvent. If truly green fuels are at least a decade away, they may be forced to consider dirtier alternatives in the interim."

Here's a thought, why not raise your prices? Geez, I can fly from Palmerston North to Auckland for $90 one way. I can't drive there for that little amount, and it would take me 6 hours as opposed to 1 on a plane.

[Naki]

More fuel saving techniques from Air NZ. See here

[Daniel]

Intersting. Airlines really need to save fuel these days with the cost of it.
Air NZ should really invest in some winglets for the 737s and 767s is they want to save some more.

[Anthony]

Actually winglets wouldn't be a bad idea.
Even for the 767 - winglets will increase its value plus its efficiency in the meantime.
The 737s are likely to stay for a while because they're not old and they're a good fit, so winglets for them would definitely be a good choice.

For the future, Air New Zealand should put some money into winglets and some money into more alternative fuel research and trials.
Like you said, lots of promising options, but no quick fixes.

The strategy in SFO is quite good too. That woud be good if it could be put in use at more airports that Air NZ fly to.

[Naki]

Don't think there is much point putting winglets on the 767 when are due to be phased out and replaced with 787s - although thinking abpout it more if the 787 is delayed any further they may need consideration.

Not sure whether earlier 737s operated by Air NZ are certfied for winglets (never seen one). The 737s Air NZ are some of the oldest A/C in the fleet (apart from the 767s) - although I dont think they will be in a rush to replace them until Boeing come out with the much rumoured 737 replacement.

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Anthony @ Jun 27 2008, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The strategy in SFO is quite good too. That woud be good if it could be put in use at more airports that Air NZ fly to.

There's a whole lot of different FANS technologies becoming available that will allow for more flexible approach and departure paths. The traditional model is based on the '10 mile final' concept, and a number of our SIDs here are also based what it's fair to say is an approach flown in reverse. Even doing away with NPAs and replacing them with APVs will provide improvements in fuel efficiency.

There's a lot that can be done to improve fuel efficiency in the skies. It's just that, up until recently, the economics hasn't really made it viable. I also think we'll see a lot more procedures like the SFO ones before too long.

[jastheace]

well in the last two months jet fuel has risen 22cpl, so you can see why airlines are scrambling, avgas has risen 15cpl, it will be interesting to see what happens end of month,fuel prices have risen every month since January, but the last months the rises have doubled almost all the other rises. airlines have to do something. it will be intresting to see what price bio fuel is, will it be cheaper, or dearer than jet, if dearer will airlines use it? and will the biofuel be subject to the price increases that current jet goes through?

[victor_alpha_charlie]

QUOTE (Daniel @ Jun 27 2008, 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Intersting. Airlines really need to save fuel these days with the cost of it.
Air NZ should really invest in some winglets for the 737s and 767s is they want to save some more.

QUOTE (Anthony @ Jun 27 2008, 04:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually winglets wouldn't be a bad idea.
Even for the 767 - winglets will increase its value plus its efficiency in the meantime.
The 737s are likely to stay for a while because they're not old and they're a good fit, so winglets for them would definitely be a good choice.

For the future, Air New Zealand should put some money into winglets and some money into more alternative fuel research and trials.
Like you said, lots of promising options, but no quick fixes.

The strategy in SFO is quite good too. That woud be good if it could be put in use at more airports that Air NZ fly to.

Actually I'm not sure winglets would be such a good idea for 737s here. They cost about $1 million US to install, and they only save a significant amount of fuel on long sectors. On a flight from even Auckland-Christchurch I don't think the saving would be justified. I'm sure ANZ have thought about and researched it.

[Anthony]

You could be right about the 737s. Though if they're sticking around long enough for the costs to be recouped, then why not?

Stuff seems to think it's quite likely that the 767s will be getting winglets (they compare it to Pacific Blue's 738s as well ).
The article also mentions other weight saving tactics like the catering, drinkable water, etc.

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Anthony @ Jun 28 2008, 12:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could be right about the 737s. Though if they're sticking around long enough for the costs to be recouped, then why not?

Stuff seems to think it's quite likely that the 767s will be getting winglets (they compare it to Pacific Blue's 738s as well ).
The article also mentions other weight saving tactics like the catering, drinkable water, etc.

Thanks for the link Anthony. Interesting read.

[Peppermint]

Probably a good reason why this hasn't been done, but what about somehow adding a few solar panels to an aircraft with a few more batteries to store the power, and use that to run some systems? Or would it add too much weight and not really help?

One thing I've always thought "why hasn't it been done?" Is a new modern prop liner. People want to travel fast, but it's getting to the stage where I think a lot would rather get there cheaper. With the new technologies and such, I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to design a new one..

Bio-fuel...I don't think that's the answer, people are dying from starvation, and we're using heaps of the corn and things bio-fuel comes from, just to get from place to place. Could have been better spending the money that was spent researching bio-fuel on something like making solar energy etc much better.

Really, people knew that oil wouldn't last forever, I don't know something wasn't done further back about a replacement for when it gets to the stage it is now.

[Charl]

QUOTE (Peppermint @ Jun 29 2008, 01:00 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Probably a good reason why this hasn't been done, but what about somehow adding a few solar panels to an aircraft with a few more batteries to store the power, and use that to run some systems? Or would it add too much weight and not really help?

Nothing yet matches the energy density found in hydrocarbons - been donethough, and looks as awkward as the solar-powered cars.

QUOTE

Really, people knew that oil wouldn't last forever, I don't know something wasn't done further back about a replacement for when it gets to the stage it is now.[/quote]Fischer-Tropsch oil-from-coal has been around for nearly a century, and is now becoming more competitive in the marketplace. Alas, it produces vast amounts of greenhouse gases.
Without heading too deeply into conspiracy theory, many alternative energy technologies were bought up and killed, because they threatened the oil recovery investment.
Their time may yet come - I for one don't lose a moment's sleep about the long-term supply of energy.