RNZAF Super King Air replacement

[travnz]

I have heard the same thing as well

[redkiwi]

There has been talk of Dash-8's for the Air Force, probably to aid in customs/fisheries patrols.

The Kingairs are used for multi engine conversion, and at the same time on occasion will be carrying Air Warfare Operators for training purposes, so it's conceivable that the replacement aircraft could be a good platform to conduct this sort of operation from also. There is limited VIP transport work conducted also, but the main role is multi engine conversion, so the replacement would need to be a logical step for a 200hr CT4E pilot to be able to take.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (bestpilotindaworld @ Sep 12 2008, 02:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The RNZAF has some of the best pilots out there mate. Show Air Nelson a thing or two. "Captain can we go low level this time?"

Yeah Right .. open your eyes what the hell are they going to fly ......

[waka172rg]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Sep 12 2008, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah Right .. open your eyes what the hell are they going to fly ......

Thats rite Ian its all turning to s**t!

[victor_alpha_charlie]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Sep 12 2008, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah Right .. open your eyes what the hell are they going to fly ......

Hey Ian.. Two 757s and a handful of CT4s and old Orions/Hercs. The RNZAF is almost as big as a small airline! As for the army? Yeah we've got a fleet of slow vans on steroids with jacked up suspension and big wheels...

[2fst4u]

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Sep 12 2008, 08:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey Ian.. Two 757s and a handful of CT4s and old Orions/Hercs. The RNZAF is almost as big as a small airline! As for the army? Yeah we've got a fleet of slow vans on steroids with jacked up suspension and big wheels...

hey, those LAVs can go pretty damn fast!

i also heard that in the future, the hercs could be replaced by C-130J's. thats pretty far out in the future though

[waka172rg]

coming from one of the best SAS squads in the world we dont have much to back that up i suppose we just got a avionics up grade

[greaneyr]

On the original topic (before we head down the deadly path of clashing opinions over the very tired issue 'the downsizing of the RNZAF' has become) I wouldn't rule out the Q200s as a contender here. Let's not forget, it wasn't so long ago that the RNZAF used the Andover for multi-engine conversion.

Does anyone know how it used to work back when they had jets and Andovers? Were they used under the PTS programme? I know today they fly CT4s to start with then move on to King Airs whilst still under PTS, but I'm just wondering if they used the Andovers for PTS as well?

[twinstarda42]

QUOTE (greaneyr @ Sep 12 2008, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On the original topic (before we head down the deadly path of clashing opinions over the very tired issue 'the downsizing of the RNZAF' has become) I wouldn't rule out the Q200s as a contender here. Let's not forget, it wasn't so long ago that the RNZAF used the Andover for multi-engine conversion.

Does anyone know how it used to work back when they had jets and Andovers? Were they used under the PTS programme? I know today they fly CT4s to start with then move on to King Airs whilst still under PTS, but I'm just wondering if they used the Andovers for PTS as well?

Up until somewhere between 1997-1998? all wings courses went basic Ct-4 then advanced on the macchi then they graduated as a pilot - they then moved onto the respective stream of 14 sqn macchi fighter lead in, Sioux Helicopter basic and Multi engine Andover(andovers departed rnzaf service mid 98)/kingair after the andovers. after 98-99 the courses started streaming after Basic with advanced training being conducted on the macchi for the strike stream, sioux for helo and kingair for multi engine with a longer period on type taking in some of the basic military aspects of the role the individual was streamed for before graduation as a pilot-looks as though these days they are back to training pilots in the earlier fashion(prior to 98 etc) with the kingair taking up the role the macchi was used for in the advanced training role(hence talk of bringing the macchi back into service late last year-which came to nothing) before graduation and streaming on to helo or multi post grad.

note as with grenyr post: Andovers were always 42sqn never with PTS.

[Alex]

If you look at the work they are actually doing to the Hercs and 757's, it's pretty major. The hercs will have a full glass cockpit, completely new avionics suite. 757 can do much more now, in VIP/Cargo/Passenger roles. I mean, what we have is up there, although it might not be much.

Alex

[twinstarda42]

QUOTE (twinstarda42 @ Sep 12 2008, 10:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Up until somewhere between 1997-1998? all wings courses went basic Ct-4 then advanced on the macchi then they graduated as a pilot - they then moved onto the respective stream of 14 sqn macchi fighter lead in, Sioux Helicopter basic and Multi engine Andover(andovers departed rnzaf service mid 98)/kingair after the andovers. after 98-99 the courses started streaming after Basic with advanced training being conducted on the macchi for the strike stream, sioux for helo and kingair for multi engine with a longer period on type taking in some of the basic military aspects of the role the individual was streamed for before graduation as a pilot-looks as though these days they are back to training pilots in the earlier fashion(prior to 98 etc) with the kingair taking up the role the macchi was used for in the advanced training role(hence talk of bringing the macchi back into service late last year-which came to nothing) before graduation and streaming on to helo or multi post grad.

may also be of interest this doco on the advanced(macchi) phase of the wings course screened on TV3 Early 1998 although as yet has still not made it to Video or DVD hopefully one day(good doco):

Wings– Ride The Lightning 120 min
Six men and one woman, all living under the constant threat of failure, in pursuit of their ultimate goal,to qualify as Air Force pilots. Four months of heaven and hell, WINGS – RIDE THE LIGHTNING is high octane, high drama life on an Airforce base in NZ
http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:Mk2IK...t=clnk&cd=2

.

[bestpilotindaworld]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Sep 12 2008, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah Right .. open your eyes what the hell are they going to fly ......

I was talking about them flying dash-8's for Air Nelson

[jastheace]

QUOTE (Alex @ Sep 17 2008, 11:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you look at the work they are actually doing to the Hercs and 757's, it's pretty major. The hercs will have a full glass cockpit, completely new avionics suite. 757 can do much more now, in VIP/Cargo/Passenger roles. I mean, what we have is up there, although it might not be much.

Alex

that is all fine and dandy upgrading the cockpit avionics, but tat the end of the day you still have a 1960's (tyhe first ones of the production line) airframe, and there lies the problem, it would be intresting to see how much the upgrades are costing compared to a new version of the herc? over the long term the new one would be a better option. as fars as the king air replacements, the dash 8 makes sense but then you could argue that a saab 340 could do the same job, or even a banderantie

[waka172rg]

I'd say that old aunty Helen won't worry about the air force for a bit because of the election due in November 8, 2008
unless she wants the votes and maybe temps people with good replacements for the king air's and some jets!!!

tho if john keys gets in then we may see a turnaround maybe But the ball in her court for this one i think can we rely on old Phil i suppose we will see


just out of interss this is what the gov has done since 2001..........
A refocused and updated Air Force

We will retain the Orion fleet, and provide a limited upgrade for it using good quality commercial systems wherever possible.

The Air Force will undertake a study to determine the best options for short and medium range air patrol.

The air combat force will be disbanded. The government will work closely with the personnel involved to minimise the uncertainty and disruption which occurs with restructuring. The Chief of Air Staff is personally briefing affected personnel at this moment.

We will investigate the feasibility of equipping Orions with missile capability.

The C-130 Hercules fleet will be upgraded or replaced.

The Iroquois helicopter fleet will be upgraded or replaced.

A study will be completed as soon as possible to identify the options for replacing the B727 transport planes, including ownership, or the possibility of leasing or chartering

[PiperDriver]

We need a fighter squadron....F-16s??

[beaufighterguy]

QUOTE (PiperDriver @ Sep 13 2008, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We need a fighter squadron....F-16s??

Yeah that's what we were going to get,I think they were ex Aussie air-force one's but silly aunt Helen has to pull out.

[waka172rg]

QUOTE (beaufighterguy @ Sep 13 2008, 01:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah that's what we were going to get,I think they were ex Aussie air-force one's but silly aunt Helen has to pull out.

just moved over to ozz and they getting new f18's flash F/A-18F Super Hornet: upgraded multi-role fighter will replace the F-111s in 2010

JSF: the Joint Strike Fighter is the aircraft to replace the Hornets and F-111s after 2012
cant wit for aishow over here!!
i say sign up for another lease with the kingairs dont wast as much gas and the dash

[redkiwi]

QUOTE (PiperDriver @ Sep 13 2008, 11:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We need a fighter squadron....F-16s??

No we don't, the skyhawks were used once in anger/defence in their 30 year service life with the RNZAF.

QUOTE (beaufighterguy @ Sep 13 2008, 12:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah that's what we were going to get,I think they were ex Aussie air-force one's but silly aunt Helen has to pull out.

It's what we were going to get, but they were ex-USAF ones, which were originally bound for Pakistan.

If the RNZAF was to ever get fast jets again the best option would be a late model Harrier - the JSF is WAY out of our budget. The other feasible option would be to bring the Aermacchis back and leave it at that.


Back on topic...

[deaneb]

QUOTE (jastheace @ Sep 13 2008, 10:21 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that is all fine and dandy upgrading the cockpit avionics, but tat the end of the day you still have a 1960's (tyhe first ones of the production line) airframe, and there lies the problem, it would be intresting to see how much the upgrades are costing compared to a new version of the herc? over the long term the new one would be a better option. as fars as the king air replacements, the dash 8 makes sense but then you could argue that a saab 340 could do the same job, or even a banderantie

Buying new Hercs is way, way more expensive than an uprade - believe me. The idea (speculation) around the Dash 8 is that it would fulfil a similar role to the Andover and Friendships that we used to have. Since we lost these aircraft the training of Navigators and Air Electronics operators has been out sourced and training for those people is done overseas. We lost Med size transport and Para drop capabilities which are picked up by just 5 Hercs which are a bit big for the job. A Dash 8 in multi role config or with aircraft with different internal fits we could fufill all those roles and then some.
SAAB and Bandits don't even come close.

QUOTE (redkiwi @ Sep 13 2008, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No we don't, the skyhawks were used once in anger/defence in their 30 year service life with the RNZAF.

Really - thats what you think. And is having a strike force all about using them in anger only ?? There is a lot more to it than that.

QUOTE (redkiwi @ Sep 13 2008, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the RNZAF was to ever get fast jets again the best option would be a late model Harrier - the JSF is WAY out of our budget. The other feasible option would be to bring the Aermacchis back and leave it at that.

The F16 is still the best option as it has a superb range of capabilities ideally suited to a small Air Force. Harriers are very expensive to operate and maintain, are dsigned for more specific purposes and offer no advantage to a small country like us. Bringing Air Macchis back would offer very good advanced pilot training and a small amount of ability to train with Navy and Army for air support practice, but that would be all.

[A185F]

QUOTE (redkiwi @ Sep 13 2008, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No we don't, the skyhawks were used once in anger/defence in their 30 year service life with the RNZAF.

Really that's interesting. Just once. I suppose that automaticly means they would never EVER again be used in anger or DEFENCE as long as this country exists (if the strike force was never disbanded)??????
I don't think so.