20 Years of Flightsimming

A place to converse about the general aspects of flight simulation in New Zealand

Postby Charl » Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:41 pm

I didn't want to hijack the very good thread Stuck in Sim Limbo and didn't want to start a blog, so thought i'd just put this here for now.

Everybody agrees that no version of FS ever allowed its maximum potential to be used initially, or even after the expected computer upgrades.
We went along like lambs to the slaughter, as each incarnation made our computer installation obsolete overnight.

Well here's my story, and one explanation of how Microsoft left many of its loyal band of followers behind.



You will see that only once before did my computer catch up with the sim, back in the days of FS4, after a massive 4-year period of continual tweaking.
But FS5 was such a leap ahead, that we wouldn't have thought of going back to reap the full benefit of the previous version.



They came thick and fast, all the way up to FS2002, and you just couldn't keep up, never mind Moore's Law doubling computing speed every 18 months.
We got used to the idea of just never getting to the end of the sim.
Enter FS9, and three things happened:
- The addon market exploded, which drove computer upgrades inside the life of the sim
- FS9 stayed around longer than usual, and if you'd pushed the envelope, you got to its full potential.
Even if you didn't go all the way, chances were good you got more out of this version than any other before
- The first edition of FSX was so lousy, users stopped and thought about how well the previous edition ran on their latest computer rig, and how badly by comparison ran FSX.
It took two more years to get sorted, by which time FS9 had had nearly 5 years to mature, all the while being developed and refined and tweaked into a very stable and usable platform.

In my case, stepping up to FSX would have required a downgrade in almost every aspect of the sim:
in reliability, the way it looked, and the way it performed.

The major selling point of the new sim was nullified by the fact that, in order to see the great new textures and detail, you had to crank up the settings to the point that the sim was unusable.
And, you'd need to spend a few hundred dollars on (then non-existent) addons, to make it look as good as a sorted FS9 setup.
Those that did go with the new edition simply made a conscious choice to accept fewer features, in order to see some of the benefits.
So the FSX user group does multiplayer, and GA flights, and adventures.
And are able to tout perfectly reasonable FPS figures as a result.
People wanting more features - AI, complex sceneries etc - find solace in FS9.

Intel's next chip will up the clockspeed which means by 2010 you'd be able to run FSX to your hearts content.

Mmm yeah right...Just for fun, I continued my evolutionary table into the next edition: FSXI.
If Microsoft does what it's been doing all these years, look forward to a splendid retro-sim experience by 2013. laugh.gif

And the cost?
Over 20 years, maybe $50,000.
This is exactly what the Wintel cartel played for...
Last edited by Charl on Tue Sep 30, 2008 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby toprob » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:00 pm

Charl wrote:
QUOTE (Charl @ Sep 30 2008, 01:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And the cost?
Over 20 years, maybe $50,000.
This is exactly what the Wintel cartel played for...


We all learn the hard way that PCs are closer to disposable razors than appliances. Two age groups are most affected by this -- the very old, like me, who had the idea that a PC was like a stereo, you bought the best you could afford, knowing that it would last you 10, maybe 12 years, and the very young, who haven't yet been caught out by the upgrade cycle.

Now I budget a certain amount per year, and don't go over it. Say I budgeted $500 per year, I could either spend $1500 every three years, or $2000 every four. Spending $3000 every two years no longer makes sense:)

EDIT: and what do we get after all that money? Graphics = a bit better; FPS = no change...

Last edited by toprob on Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby deaneb » Tue Sep 30, 2008 4:56 pm

The intersesting thing is that, the always bagged, FSX, is actually the only sim where the sim requirements have lessened relative to the computer requirements.
But I'm not going to waste my time with that argument !!

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Postby greaneyr » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:21 pm

It reminds you of having a carrot dangled above you that is pulled further away as soon as you learn how to approach it huh?

My FS history is interesting. I went in an alternating pattern as far as what I did and did not use.

FS1 - No
FS2 - Yes
FS3 - No
FS4 - Yes
FS5 - No
FS95 - No (the first exception to the rule)
FS98 - Yes
FS2000 - No
FS2002 - No (again, another exception)
FS2004 - Yes
FSX - No

In all likelihood, FS11 is set to be another no, unless my budget suddenly learns how to stretch to the heights required of it to get to that level. Note that this pattern is, without exception, never 'yes' twice in a row.

This pattern has been created not through any sporadic love/hate relationship I've had with flight simulators, but of course because of the hardware requirements to run them. Let's take the pattern again and see why my responses were the way they were:


FS1 - No - Didn't run on the Acorn Electron
FS2 - Yes - Ran on the C64
FS3 - No - Didn't run on the C64
FS4 - Yes - Ran on the 486
FS5 - No - Ran poorly on the 486
FS95 - No - Not sure about the 486 here. Never tried it - never bothered!
FS98 - Yes - Ran on the newly upgraded AMD K5 PR133
FS2000 - No - PR133? 16MB RAM? Get out of here!
FS2002 - No - Pentium III 667 128MB RAM? Probably would have run, but I didn't want to chance it. FS98 ran too well to want to go back to jerky FS2-like behaviour
FS2004 - Yes - By this stage, I'd learned the benefits of not using onboard video so found it ran just bearably on the PIII. Subsequent upgrades yielded good mileage too.
FSX - No - But there's no way this is gonna fly on a PIV 3GHz

So I'm going to have to get to the point where my current machine just can't do what it is I want to do. For ordinary desktop use, a 3GHz PIV with 1GB of RAM is just fine. For FSX, it blows heavily. I haven't tried it - not even going to bother. Why then would it run FSXI? It won't. Hence why I think FSXI is likely to be skipped too.

All the upgrades I went through (bar the cycle of PIII667 - Celeron 1.1GHz - PIV 1.6GHz - PIV 2GHz - PIV 2.4GHz - PIV 3GHz I have taken my current machine through) were performed because the OS offered significant benefits to warrant the additional hardware platform. At the moment, Windows just isn't changing enough to offer me any drawcard to upgrade.

This is something MS are no doubt aware of, mind you. Nowadays, people are upgrading not because they WANT to but because the HAVE to (as their current hardware dies).

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Postby Njbb1995 » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:41 pm

If it runs Average on a 2.8 Ghz it should in theory work on a 3.0 Ghz processor blink.gif Unless I cant count to 3.................
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Postby s0cks » Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:59 am

When buying a new PC I always build it in a fashion that wil lallow me to upgrade later down the line. For example, I high-end motherboard that I hope will support future processors, big RAM sticks to free up slots, etc... But I almost always do a complete overhaul every 2years without fail. Computer components are released at record speed these days and new architectures mean a whole new system.

I wasn't until I got my Quad that I could even run FS9 absolutely maxxed with high-end addons and hundreds of AI, without it stuttering. It wasn't until then that I actually played it hardcore. Thats how bad MS drag us along! I'm not really in the mood to go through the whole thing again with FSX. I'm crossing my fingers and hoping FSXI will be far more optimized. Dual and Quad cores are perfect for flight sims and I hope MS take FULL advantage of it. I would even hope they release it in both 32 and 64bit form, but I doubt it.

My FS history is rather lame, cus I'm young smile.gif

Flight Unlimited II (loved that game!)
Fly! 2
FS2004
FSX
X-Plane 9

But I did used to play FS95 and FS98 round a friends.
Last edited by s0cks on Thu Oct 02, 2008 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PiperDriver » Thu Oct 02, 2008 2:17 pm

I started with FS95 then fs2002 and now fs2004. im not upgrading to fsx. too many addons that work fine.

If it aint broke why fix it??
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Postby Ian Warren » Sat Oct 04, 2008 12:58 am

..........Not going into History smile.gif with this subject ..... but you are going to love this .... blo FS1 ohmy.gif .. FS6 laugh.gif FS ..drrrrrr FSE ... a VISTA wicked GRAPHICS cool.gif


......................................................As 'Mr T' would say .... GRAB YOUR NUTS FOOL ... Its Vista tongue.gif not VISTAR ninja.gif

..................................................................[color=#FF0000]all pictures and artwork courtsey of JANES DEFENCE WEEKLY 1984
[/color]


When I was a kid ( that has,nt changed ) it seemed everyone had a better than this and in that .. i was always envious , i always dreamed to have a , the ultimate FS , I still dont and never will have that system today .. many still recon their flightsim still sucks because , ......... the fancy screenies .. rolleyes.gif

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Postby Charl » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:49 am

Mmph and I thought I was being cute in finding an FS5 screenshot. cool.gif
Have to modify the histogram a little then, back to '84.
Budget too, add maybe 5 million pounds for that one.
You're right, though...kids always reaching for that ultimate toy, and it's always - just - out of reach.
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