Simpit - Off to a Flying Start

[HamiltonWest]

Simpit Company - Off to a flying start
3D Motion Sim
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries...-a-flying-start

company website here:
http://www.simpit.co.nz/

[Ian Warren]

Be interesting to follow the progress , photo showing him using the L-39 for example as a base and many other licence software and trackIR or least seem s to be , hope it gos well .

[Nzeddy]

Nice, it even has VLC installed.

[Timmo]

QUOTE (Nzeddy @ Jul 12 2011,11:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice, it even has VLC installed.

It sure does! Tomas was the first purchaser of a commercial VLC license. I can't wait to get down there and check it out!

[connor]

It's also got photoreal Motueka, maybe a sign of things to come.

[creator2003]

Very cool though this is the first time ive heard of this and i see some of my own stuff in the screen shots which ive never been asked or approached about the licensing distribution and so on , i guess he is not using any of my scenerys in it , and its just in the promotion shots by accident maybe?

[deaneb]

QUOTE (creator2003 @ Jul 13 2011,9:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very cool though this is the first time ive heard of this and i see some of my own stuff in the screen shots which ive never been asked or approached about the licensing distribution and so on , i guess he is not using any of my scenerys in it , and its just in the promotion shots by accident maybe?

Regardless, if he is making money from this, then he should not be using other peoples work without either purchasing or at the very least asking permission?

[cowpatz]

QUOTE (creator2003 @ Jul 17 2011,10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very cool though this is the first time ive heard of this and i see some of my own stuff in the screen shots which ive never been asked or approached about the licensing distribution and so on , i guess he is not using any of my scenerys in it , and its just in the promotion shots by accident maybe?

Actually to play devils advocate for one moment this simpit raises some very interesting copyright issues. Things such as what exactly is in Mike's copyright wording for starters? As I have yet to indulge in Mikes great scenery I can only generalise but most copyright notices are concerning redistribution of the product for monetary gain (as in copying or using part of the source code in in other work for direct financial gain). This guy does not seem to be doing that.
That also leads into whether Mike used a commercial version of VLC when designing his scenery to fit in with it?...and should he have to?

Casting the net a little wider are we in fact able to create add on scenery and aircraft for FS9 or FSX at all? The fact there is a freely available SDK suggests that we might but if push comes to shove do we not first need permission before distributing products, especially for financial gain, that use Microsofts propriety source code? Or does this already happen?

Don't get me wrong here I am only trying to illustrate what a rocky road copyright can be for everyone. When we see companies and individuals trying to patent phrases (such as Charlie Sheen's recent ridiculous efforts to copyright his pathetic catch phrases) it all starts to become a little treacherous. Should a person or company be able to claim copyright to a string of words which in fact were created by someone else in the first place? A veritable minefield.

[markll]

QUOTE (cowpatz @ Jul 13 2011,9:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't get me wrong here I am only trying to illustrate what a rocky road copyright can be for everyone. When we see companies and individuals trying to patent phrases (such as Charlie Sheen's recent ridiculous efforts to copyright his pathetic catch phrases) it all starts to become a little treacherous for all. Should a person or company be able to claim copyright to words which in fact were created by someone else in the first place. A veritable minefield.

Wouldn't it be similar to a DVD purchase? You go to Whitcoulls, say, and buy a DVD, then you charge people money to come watch it in your home theatre...wouldn't THAT be breach of copyright or some such? Definitely illegal. Same thing here I'd have thought - this guy has a commercial license for VLC according to Timmo, but what about FSX itself? And Mikes, or any other, scenery he uses? Or addon aircraft and/or repaints?

[cowpatz]

Not necessarily because a DVD copyright is quite specific and doing as you suggest is expressly forbidden. This guy is projecting the scenery (not something I have seen in a scenery copyright) not redistributing it. Should he also seek approval or a license for every item used in the simpit? .....switches, knobs, instruments....all are used to earn income. All of these items had stakeholders when designed, manufactured and distributed. Sure if you copied it and then sold the copies that would be a breach of copyright...but what about using it for it's intended purpose?

[toprob]

This is simpler than most imagine -- VLC has an End User License Agreement (EULA) which spells this out very clearly:

QUOTE

The USER may install a SINGLE copy of this product for personal, non-profit, non commercial use. Commercial licenses can be purchased separately by contacting the Vector Land Class team at VectorLandClass@[/quote]

There are in fact two commercial options for FSX -- the obsolete MS ESP, and Lockheed's Prepar3D. Most commercial sims would use one or the other, both are compatible with FSX, and most FSX scenery will work in both.

[cowpatz]

Yes the VLC EULA is more specific than the usual and in fact looking at it as you have emphasised means I cannot actually run the same copy of VLC on both my desktop and laptop, the later which I take away overseas with me

Looking at part of the Microsoft gaming EULA .... "Microsoft grants you a personal, non-exclusive, non-transferable license to use and display Game Content and to create derivative works based upon Game Content, (my emphasis) strictly for noncommercial and personal use" makes me wonder how many add on developers are actually lawfully complying with this. I am assuming that VLC has an approval to create derivative works if indeed it fits within that category?

All interesting stuff and one in which even the big guns get themselves embroiled in from time to time.

[Ian Warren]

Good example CP .. I have three PC's , i live alone , payed many dues to many many payware companies for models , Yet ! why am i required to have pay for FSX another two times at cost , the way Microsoft works , FS9 i was able to run a multiplay between both primary PC,s without a problem , this was share only with myself for screens .

But people really do flaunt the system . Rip steal cheat , end off the day quite typical the honest person looses out .

[cowpatz]

Well the perspective I apply generally to copyright and IP is that as long as it just me (or my family) using it and I am not gaining any financial advantage from it then whatever I am using it should be OK and not be a breech or require a license. Like you Ian I have no time for those that deliberately steal and profit from that action.

[toprob]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Jul 14 2011,4:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But people really do flaunt the system . Rip steal cheat , end off the day quite typical the honest person looses out .

Yes, although I won't try and second-guess the reasoning behind various EULA conditions, there is a range of ways in which you can breach these conditions, from cowpatz's scenario through to outright theft. If you give people loopholes for different scenarios, then there are plenty of people out there who would rob you blind.

But there are a lot of different ways in which a breach becomes theft. For example, a couple of FS fans save their pocket money and buy an addon which they both install -- after all, they both contributed to it. This is easy for them to justify to themselves, but some addon developers would consider this a serious breach. I would.

Installing it on a desktop and a laptop for your own use (assuming they won't be running at the same time) is ok by me, but is one of those situations which someone will always take advantage of -- for example, someone might buy a single software license and install it on two different computers which they own at the time, and then sell both for profit. If they are 'caught', they'd just blame it on the openness of the EULA. So in the end it's best to make everything against the EULA:)

By the way, I don't speak for VLC in this case, only my own scenery (Real NZ). In my case, I'd be happy if someone 'uninstalled' my scenery from one computer just be shutting the computer down before using it on their laptop. However making it against the EULA means that someone can't 'forget' to uninstall it from every computer system they sell on Trademe...

[Timmo]

QUOTE (cowpatz @ Jul 14 2011,4:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes the VLC EULA is more specific than the usual and in fact looking at it as you have emphasised means I cannot actually run the same copy of VLC on both my desktop and laptop, the later which I take away overseas with me

As Robin mentioned, that kind of use of VLC is fine by me as well....it's surprisingly hard to write a concise EULA which gets across what you want to say! The intention in my case was to prohibit things like buying one copy of VLC and then installing on a heap of machines in order to avoid buying multiple copies (i.e. concurrent use)- Installing VLC say on a laptop and desktop is fine by me if they both belong the original purchaser and would be used by the purchaser.

Anyway, a little off track- It's really great to see that Tomas' work is coming together and that it is getting media coverage!

[creator2003]

Simply some contact by the vendor asking if it was ok to use Oceania autogen textures ,Able Tasman and whatever else i made in a commercial simulator would have been nice ,i guess ill wait to hear from him if he intends on using any of my scenerys in simpit, im very approachable and have always been most helpful .
Thats reasonable request is it not ?

[cowpatz]

QUOTE (creator2003 @ Jul 19 2011,10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Simply some contact by the vendor asking if it was ok to use Oceania autogen textures ,Able Tasman and whatever else i made in a commercial simulator would have been nice ,i guess ill wait to hear from him if he intends on using any of my scenerys in simpit, im very approachable and have always been most helpful .
Thats reasonable request is it not ?

Absolutely. A very reasonable and pragmatic approach. I was trying to tease out a few thoughts with respect to intellectual and property rights / copyright issues in general and the fact that some FS developers might be in breach of Microsoft's own EULA when developing add ons despite having the very best of intentions. I am certainly not suggesting that any developers here are in this situation as they are far more knowledgeable in this area than me . The fact that Microsoft chooses not to enforce it's own EULA does not render a add on developers actions legal.

I am relieved to know that I can keep my laptop loaded with VLC and Real NZ products.