NZFF

by **jeansy** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 9:31 am

from the locals perspective

is this worth getting?

by **toprob** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 1:44 pm

jeansy wrote:
QUOTE (jeansy @ Dec 18 2011,10:31 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
for the locals perspective

is this work getting?

I'm a local, and I'll give my initial opinion, even though I do sell a 'competing' product -- Vector Land Class -- through my website...

Going from default FSX to NZSI is a huge improvement, of course. Going via VLC to NZSI is the tricky bit, where both have strengths, and both have weaknesses. So there are three groups of people that this is aimed at -- those who have used Vector Land Class for a while, those who have lived in the South Island, that those who both live here and use VLC:)

Summer in NZSI is lovely -- I live in Lyttelton, so this was the first place I checked. Most of my initial flights were via saved flights, which are designed to show off various areas of NZ, and Lyttelton is one of these, because anyone who visits me has automatically been to Lyttelton... Flying over NZSI Banks Peninsula in summer is great. This isn't the same in the other months, because I no longer get that instant recognition that I'm looking for. The other seasons just go too green, and I don't mean a nice green.

The trouble, I think, relates to how the seasonal texture are produced. Most aerial photos in New Zealand are flown in December/January, which is the beginning of summer, so of course they represent that time of the year perfectly. In reality, though, this is more a spring/summer look, the real summer in similar areas and landclasses is a lot drier. Banks Peninsula at the moment is at its greenest, which isn't very green at all, but this usually just lasts a few weeks while the grasses are sprouting. Think of tussock, the natural colour is far from green, although in the early spring it does get some green growth.

So to create the other seasons, simply greening them up doesn't work well for many landclasses in NZ, for a few reasons. The result is that there is a lot less seasonal variation in New Zealand than in other parts of the world. Here, green farmland is kept pretty much the same throughout the year with the help of irrigation. In the winter everything here dies so there is almost no green at all. In native areas there's less variation -- these just stay green all year.

One solution for NZ scenery developers is to reduce the number of seasons for some landclasses in NZ, and flip summer and winter for a few. I think that Christian Stock did something similar for FS2004 topo, and VLC works this way as well.

But using NZSI in summer, as I said, is great. Banks Peninsula looks great, and I love the Akaroa lighthouse, which is one of the many accurate lighthouses provided. Further south the summer is great as well, but the greens are just as jarring in the other seasons. Marlborough is another area which is really well represented in summer. However I was disappointed with the West Coast overall. There is plenty I've yet to explore in the South Island, so this is still early days.

Speaking of Akaroa and early days, I'm aware that a lot of small towns are missing due to a bug in this release. Hokitika township doesn't exist, the northern side of Greymouth is missing, and Akaroa township isn't there. I understand that this will be fixed, so some locals might want to wait until this is released.

I won't comment too much on the 'flow' features, I know that people love these, and they are all there -- this was my first Orbx scenery, so I haven't seen these before, the wavy grass and the people walking about airports. Great ambiance from a distance, kind of corny up close. I've yet to see a sheep...

One of the strengths of Orbx scenery is the vegetation, and there's plenty here. I was expecting something a bit more NZ, though -- the vegetation is very generic, although attractive enough. One feature of Orbx scenery is the lack of any real variation in trees, which gives a nice tidy effect, but doesn't look right in New Zealand cites, for instance. From ground-level the little airfields are beautiful with the dense tree backdrops. I was most interested in the rural airfields, of course, as these have the most scope to represent the real South Island, and these are all customised to a nice level, not too overdone -- the developers didn't feel the need to cram in hundreds of objects into an airfield which is in reality just a couple of hangars, a water tank, and some wire fencing to keep the sheep out...

Some issues which I've noticed:

The textures overall are very, very dark, so dark in fact that using them with my normal ENBseries settings makes them go almost completely black. This also means that they don't blend well with any existing photoscenery, not just mine but all of them. I had my FSX looking brilliant with recent atmospheric improvements, but I would really need to rethink these if I was to use NZSI permanently. Orbx has suggested that developers redo photoscenery to match, but this doesn't make sense to me -- I don't think that over-adjusting aerial images gives good photoscenery.

The shelterbelts were of interest to a lot of locals, mainly because this was something which some didn't like in VLC. Orbx has dealt with these a completely different way, as I knew they would, but they haven't managed to get them to work 100% either. They are made up of rows of cross-plane 'blocks', which together make a hedgerow, and this is great in that it allows a nice shelterbelt to follow the contours of the land. Unfortunately they only really work when autogen is set to super-dense, overwise they turn into single boxes in a row. They do say that autogen should be set this way, but for some of us this just isn't possible.

For any photoscenery which uses autogen, there will be issues, as installing Orbx NZSI seems to damage some autogen textures, giving a picture of eaves where roofs should be. Weird, but maybe fixable.

by **Adamski** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:02 pm

Thanks for the in-depth "review", Rob - much appreciated.

I've bought a couple of ORBX products in the past (FTX Australia and YSCB) and have been generally impressed - though I've only just now been able to see the sceneries in all their glory since I upgraded my PC. I thought it'd be "cheesy", but I actually quite like the people-flow thing. Certainly, their attention to detail in airport design is staggering - and their control panels work well.

I may just treat myself to this one - particularly as you also have it, and we have you around to comment on any NZSI/VLC/RealNZ mis-matches

I'm still going to support any "local" efforts in making our FS NZ "as real as it gets".

by **jeansy** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 2:28 pm

cheers,

sorry about the 1st message its the damn auto correct on the Iphone

Ive seen some pics around the traps, there is some very bright green textures, is that right?

im not having much luck with the orbx website at the mo so i cant look at the preview shots

by **Adamski** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:02 am

OK ... here's my "take" on NZSI. A bit of a mixed bag, really, but overall I think it's very good.

Airports first: Many - otherwise untouched - NZ airfields have been given the ORBX "facelift". I can't say how realistic they are, as I've never been to any of them

... but do do look pretty (and *busy*).

However - our home-grown talent sometimetimes just can't be bettered, so ... here's Nelson (NZSI first):

Followed by Robin's offering (with ORBX eye-candy though - which I hadn't turned off). I forgot to turn off real weather as well

Here's the inevitable NZMF shots:

In the long grass (no snakes here, ya boo hiss neener neener)

Quite busy!

Nice rock textures ...

Here's Dunedin ...

Maybe this is the green that some people are finding too strong ...

Over the city ...

Now on to Christchurch ...

But we have a problem with Woodbourne and Omaka (not shown):

At this stage, I'm not entirely sure about the layering order - between NZSI and VLC. ORBX suggests NZSI higher than VLC (but they would, wouldn't they

). The problems at NZWB occurred with every combination of higher/lower/enabled/disabled so I don't know what's going on here.

Note: All these pics were taken with Oceania textures enabled and with VLC still present, but below NZSI, except for the 2nd pic (Nelson) where I just shunted Rob's scenery above.

North Island (as you might expect) was largely unaffected - and didn't look *that* different, using ORBX autogen and trees - though I haven't really had time to test that out yet. I'm no expert, so unsure about quite how to get all these add-ons to live together happily - but at first sight, they seem *roughly* compatible.

So ... is it worth it? IMHO - yes. I can live with the (apparent) "green-ness". After all, NZ is pretty green most of the year round. The additional airfields certainly appear to give value - and there seem to be lots of details added in the scenery here and there. I've yet to test-fly it over any mountains.

by **MichaelBasler** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:27 am

Dear Adamski,

thanks a lot for your valuable report. I bought NZSI, but will probably only install it over X-mas. Great to know it works with VLC for the NI in principle and thanks for your hints on layering. I bought and installed nearly all previous Godzone/VLC scenery, so I still expect some fine tuning to be necessary.

I've never had an opportunity to visit your beautiful country (may remain a dreams for the rest of my life), but I can enjoy (virtual) flying there, at least.

Regards, Michael

by **Timmo** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:34 am

Adamski wrote:
QUOTE (Adamski @ Dec 19 2011,1:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
At this stage, I'm not entirely sure about the layering order - between NZSI and VLC. ORBX suggests NZSI higher than VLC (but they would, wouldn't they ).

Haha they would....but only because it would be a waste of money if you didn't! Putting it in a higher priority just means you will see Orbx in the Sth Island rather than VLC

by **Splitpin** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:56 am

A lot of work in that report Adam, but no sale here Im sorry. Cant comment on the other airports.....but CHC looks odd, mainly the tower and its placement...i cant quite pick it. I'll be out there in about an hours time, so i snap a few pics and check it out.

Well done....but i cant feel my wallet twitching at all

by **toprob** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:04 am

Thanks for that, Adam. I've posted details of how to 'fix' Real NZ Nelson for use with NZSI -- and Doug has taken care of Real NZ Marlborough airports in the same thread. I think the issue you have is that these particular airports have been re-elevated by both Orbx and Godzone, so both have files in Scenery/World/Scenery which affect the elevations. These can be missed when turning off scenery folders.

You've mentioned the Orbx eye-candy at Nelson, but you don't have any Real NZ eye-candy! This usually means you haven't installed the required VLC libraries.

('Forgot to turn off real weather' in Nelson -- there's a very tasteless joke in there somewhere....)

Actually, NZSI does a great job around Dunedin, especially the city and harbour. Your shots look very summery, it's really just the other seasons where I find the greens over-powering. I've been exploring a bit over the weekend, but every time I start a flight in an area I know, I end up switching the season to summer.

by **happytraveller** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 11:25 am

It is not just in summer that the greens are overpowering. Not only are some places far too green, but also a strange shade of green at all. I have tried flights around Wanaka and Tekapo, and experimented with different seasons, but for me, they were all FAR too green. It just is not like that in summer/autumn. I wonder how Orbx could get it so wrong. Even some of the mountains have a green tinge. I hope that they offer a fix for this later, as it is annoying when flying around to be surrounded by a surreal green.

Smooth landings.

by **Naki** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:52 pm

I see what you mean by been very green. I was just checking some Wanaka shots on the Orbx forums which showed the area very green...green like the Waikato when its in the middle of a very wet month.

When I've been to Wanaka its brown and dusty. I was there twice in Autumn. Maybe its green sometime in the year in Central Otago?

Do the Orbx Central Otago textures actually get brown at any time over the seasons?

by **happytraveller** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:08 pm

Sad to say that the green in the Orbx NZSI is almost the same at Wanaka in summer and autumn, and is very much off what it should be. Same thing applies to Tekapo/Twizel and the Macenzie area. Not only is it too green, but it also a strange shade of green.

RealNZ Southern Lakes got the colours right, Orbx has got them wrong. Badly wrong.

smooth landings.

by **Naki** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:16 pm

Oh dear!...I will wait then and see whether any patches come out...and see what NZQN and NZNI look like first and whether all of Mike's and Robin's payware gets patched to NZSI and NZNI. Looks like I might be waiting for while as I understand it NZNI is not due until mid next year........in the meantime I keep will enjoying VLC...indeed if VLC keeps improving I might never make the plunge.

by **Adamski** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:37 pm

toprob wrote:
QUOTE (toprob @ Dec 19 2011,11:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You've mentioned the Orbx eye-candy at Nelson, but you don't have any Real NZ eye-candy! This usually means you haven't installed the required VLC libraries.

('Forgot to turn off real weather' in Nelson -- there's a very tasteless joke in there somewhere....)

Actually, NZSI does a great job around Dunedin, especially the city and harbour. Your shots look very summery, it's really just the other seasons where I find the greens over-powering. I've been exploring a bit over the weekend, but every time I start a flight in an area I know, I end up switching the season to summer.

Thanks Rob. Timmo suggested looking for the dupes as well, so that'll be my first step.

UPDATE: *Yes* that's fixed it! AF2_NZOM.bgl and AF2_NZWB.bgl were indeed the culprits. Many thanks!!!

I may just have to create 2 little batch files to enable/disable these 2 (rather like the ORBX configurator).

I do have Godzone eye candy (VLC Libraries) installed/active (it certainly looked OK before I installed NZSI!) - but I suspect NZSI took priority in that instance, as I only moved the Godzone layer above NZSI.

So far, I've only tested in the current season - so will see what happens in [our] winter, re the greens.

by **toprob** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:39 pm

Naki wrote:
QUOTE (Naki @ Dec 19 2011,1:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Do the Orbx Central Otago textures actually get brown at any time over the seasons?

Actually, yes. You can't really fault it in summer:

And in winter, it would be great if the green saturation were just pulled back about 5%.

Although this screenshot actually 'sells' the scenery really well, it does illustrate another issue -- the summer version is a nice summer day, without ENBseries, but it doesn't look like a nice day -- it it just a little too dark. Turning on ENB I get a gloomy mess, which didn't warrant a screenshot.

Get above the green valleys, and it is freakily good:

A comparison between VLC and Orbx -- VLC has ENB turned on, Orbx is off, but the VLC is nice and bright. Both are great!

Orbx:

VLC:

QUOTE

I wonder how Orbx could get it so wrong.[/quote]

Be careful what you wish for -- I don't think the continual chant of 'more green! more green!' since FSX was first released has helped here.

A slight shift of the tonal range, and as I said, 5% less saturation, and it would be killer!

NZFF

ORBX NZSI RELEASED!

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