Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Killratio » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:08 am

Update time again...at last!

It has been a difficult month here. Despite constant problems, I eventually got into my garage for 6 hours on Saturday and 5 on Sunday last. Still not good for a "go away and leave me alone, I am in the garage all weekend and will kill anyone who interrupts me!!" weekend where I SHOULD have had at least 8-9 hours both days. But, apparently, death threats are not taken seriously at my place. I may have to remedy that! :evil:

I have also been sidetracked on another exciting project but that is mostly a "late night" thing which costs me sleep but nothing else and is helping to keep me sane!

Anyway......

FINALLY some major progress BUT surprisingly little to "show" for it.

The main upper longerons have been bugging me for quite some time. (since before Christmas, in fact). But the long lead time and many, many rethinks have finally borne fruit, I think.

I finally gave up on bending 2 metres of 1.5 mm aluminium in to a complex U shape with flanges. This has meant that I have had to settle for a slightly off scale fit. The final dimensions are 41.6mm x 30mm x 41.6mm and 18mm flanges, instead of the 38.1 x 38.1 x 38.1 with 20.32mm flanges called out on the GA at Frame 8. A frustrating, to be honest, but necessary compromise. (Imperial.. should be 1.6" x 1.6" x 1.6" with flanges 0.8" but is 1.638" x 1.18" x 1.638" with a 0.72" flanges)

This was achieved by paring down 50mm x50mm x 1.5mm ali tubing and fixing 20mm x 20mm angle aluminium onto it. The riveting was all able to be placed so that it will not be visible on the finished product..(hidden by Frames, accessories etc).. and the joins on the upper face will be sealed with car "bog". so the pieces will look like a single, folded structure. I’m just hoping that the rectangular profile in the cockpit is not too noticeable against the apparent square profile of the original longeron.


The difference in width was easily accommodated in Supermarine's "fudge factor" in the GAs and line widths etc. The flanges are a tiny bit thicker than called out for but easily fit and will add extra strength. I’m not getting any younger and want to be able to place full weight on the structure to lower myself in!

The lower longerons are also not correct and are, in fact, quite a bit different. But they are not really visible in the cockpit and I can always make inserts to go over the top where they are seen. The more compact design will add strength to the base of the frames too, reducing the “cut-out" size and increasing the area of the Frame faces at the joins.…again, desirable as there is no engine area adding strength up front, no wings on the side and no tapered tail section adding it at the rear. It will also allow wheels to be attached to them to make the cockpit mobile.

And while on the subject of compromise… I have to admit that I have decided to base ALL of the Frame widths on Frame 8. So there will not be the approximately ¾“ taper between Frames 8 and 11 that is on the real aircraft. This simplifies construction, skinning AND importantly, the rear slide of the Canopy! So sue me :P
I don’t think it will be perceptible to the eye…at least I hope not!

Sorry about the low quality pictures..will get some improved ones as we go along.

The four longerons. Thickest lower, thinnest upper.

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The profile of the main upper. The flanges on the bottom need to be slightly bent out to fit on the frames. A job for later. I wish I had noticed before I joined them. It would have been easier to bend them to less than 90deg before attachment

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And lastly, the final pattern for the sheet ali of Frame 8, including the overhang for the flanges and the Former for bending the sheet. I am learning ALL about preparation!! A raw pattern in wood off the blown up and printed GA, another with flange allowance, marked out from the original pattern and flanges measured and drawn in and thirdly, a Former routed from heavier wood from the original light wood pattern ex flanges… A printed paper pattern, full size and three wood patterns for each Frame! And I still need to cut undersized holes in the Former and route 45deg out to size for forming the lightening holes.

For reference, Frame 8 will be just about 34" wide (864mm) and just under 30" high.

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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Ian Warren » Wed Mar 08, 2017 3:53 am

Killratio wrote:It has been a difficult month here. Despite constant problems, I eventually got into my garage for 6 hours on Saturday and 5 on Sunday last. Still not good for a "go away and leave me alone, I am in the garage all weekend and will kill anyone who interrupts me!!" weekend where I SHOULD have had at least 8-9 hours both days. But, apparently, death threats are not taken seriously at my place. I may have to remedy that! :evil:

Darryl, you simply say "Go away ! can't you see I'm working on a piece of art" :D .... pleased you put in the imperial sizes for the uneducated :P Bumpsy Daisy , make a grown man weep .. Gotta quit watching 'Battle of Britain' looking darn good from a hold up , least one can follow the build and engineering ideas.

Sure beats one customer I had to work with , he brought the going concern 'Raven Steel' , this guy mentioned he was an engineer, he 'd just finished up in the area Lake Dunsden hydro plant, Crikey ... first impression was not so good , I did the drawings for the components , one metric , one imperial specific for different customers around the world , ordered the 1/2 BSW thread with the drawing No. but the sample he come in with after production was 12mm ... after doing it for a while you only have to have the bolt thread shown to ya and you can tell what it was...

:wacko: This guy holding a 12 mm lock nut .. and telling me it won't screw on .. YIP , just to prove his DUMBNESS on a later date he wanted a 7/8" hole thru a piece of 20 mm aluminium tube , this was for a new light weight electric wheel car ... Ooo boy , Now I do understand why they had so many engineering troubles down South on this hydro project , if all the engineering were like that ..

Back to the Spitfire , its great to see progress taking off again , I should dig up my brothers birdman Spitty he did in the UK.
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Killratio » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 am

A long weekend's work has seen all of the bits done for Frame 8 except the top sheet (that will be made during this week ) and the inside liner, which will be formed once the frame is assembled (hopefully next weekend) so that I can make sure it fits!

I have decided that my original swages/dimple dies (depending on which school you went to) are slightly the wrong size...if I am going to go to all of this trouble, they may as well be right, not "almost right". So I have made up some rounded blocks which just need the 45deg edge put on them.
I've got the hole saws to make the inner diametre, then the dies will be made to flange the holes out to the correct 1 3/4", 2 1/4" and 3" diametres.

Paper pattern with the sheets for the aft of Frame 8.

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Forward Frame 8 sheets.

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The whole lot, cut, shaped and cleaned up ready for assembly.

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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Ian Warren » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:26 am

I do like this working from engineering sheets for a sim cockpit, were did you get those drawing sheets from, from a book and then re-scaled ?
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Killratio » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:04 pm

Ian,

I've got about 3100 GA's and other Engineering Drawings plus another 4-5K pages of manuals and maintenance releases etc.

The GA's were scaled up from .tiff files on a large photocopier. The next lot (Frame 11) will be a nightmare and I am hoping to get those frames laser cut..cheating but....

The P3D Model came up very nicely. I can't wait to do some screenshots of her around the change of light times. The model looks great in that early morning glow! I suspect that this paint will be pretty much ALL I fly in P3D in the Cockpit.
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Ian Warren » Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:59 pm

Simply brilliant piece of work, with the A2A Spitfire you simply could not have chosen a better subject to combine the lot together, that makes it in a class of its own, I'm thinking your next project maybe a ME/BF-109 then you can really go head to head !
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Killratio » Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:39 pm

Cheers Ian... :) :) :) After putting in SO many hours of research and consulting on the A2A bird I suppose I have NO excuse for not making her come to life!


Oh...for any budding A2A Spitfire pilots out there OR for us old hands who like to see "how it was really done"....


While researching K9817, I was fortunate to find this article, written by well known aviation writer Alec Lumsden,
who by pure coincidence made his first solo in her in February 1941. by that time her original Merlin II engine had been (just, I suspect)
changed for a Merlin III but she seems to be pretty much "as built".

Enjoy:


The writer's first encounter, in anger, with the Spitfire occurred at No 58 Operational Training Unit (OTU) at Grangemouth, between Edinburgh and Glasgow, now submerged by a huge petrochemical installation, in mid February 1941. Apart from a couple of Master Is, 'used by the instructors for checking out newcomers, there was a surprising number of Spitfire Is to be seen.

The station commander was Gp. Capt. Carnegie, a well-known flying-boat pilot, and the chief flying instructor was Wg. Cdr. H.A.Y. Hogan, formerly of the Long-Range Development Unit, whose Vickers Wellesley bombers held the long- range record for a formation flight from Ismailia to Darwin.

The whole atmosphere of the aerodrome (as it was then called - not "airfield" - we had heard of, but not yet encountered Americans), was alive with the noise of engines being run-up, of aircraft taxying, taking off and landing.

At that time, very soon after the end of the Battle of Britain, Spitfire OTUs were equipped with ex-squadron Mk Is, many of which were distinctly tired, having of necessity previously experienced only two speeds, "flat out" and “stop".

They were still extremely hard-worked at OTUs, since not only were trained pilots urgently required to replace considerable numbers of casualties, but the expansion of Fighter Command was going on apace, with new squadrons being formed as quickly as possible. The challenging impact of meeting the Spitfire, rather like encountering a Grand Prix racing car, was such that it really dared you to have a go. A first approach to one at that time almost inevitably caused a sense of surprise. To begin with, the Spitfire was not very large and. by comparison with present standards, as a fighter it certainly was small. It had an all-metal structure instead of the plywood and fabric of the trainers one had grown accustomed to.

There was the smell of the thing (there is nothing quite like the smell of a hot engine) and the noise of it, Licking away as it cooled from the previous run, one of many impressions vividly described by Alex Henshaw in his book Sigh for a Merlin, Then there was the whirring of the gyro instruments as they very gradually slowed down, taking minutes to do so.
Entry into the Spitfire was by the port wing root and a fairly slippery climb up the smooth wing skin, There was no seat cushion - one relied upon the parachute for this. The first lesson with one's instructor was to learn the cockpit layout, the "tits" or taps, control levers and switches upon which one's future depended. Instinctive knowledge of where every- thing was to be found and operated instantly (and with- out looking) was as a lifesaver, whether the emergency be sudden bad weather or being jumped by an unfriendly Messerschmitt or perhaps even by one's own flight commander, out to catch a dreamy pilot unawares. This was not too difficult because one had the Pilot's Notes to learn first and, on the whole, these were well written and illustrated. These had to be memorised, because Pilot's Notes were not supposed to be taken into the air. In any case, on a fighter "scramble" there would be no time to run through a checklist, Vital Actions having to be done by instinct while taxying or even during take-off.


Having learnt and been tested on cockpit layout and procedures by the instructor, the new boy returned to the crew-room to await his turn to fly. His flight commander first checked that he was confident and, hopefully, competent, then told him which aircraft to fly and to sign the Flight Authorisation Book and the Form 700, which stated, through the signatures of mechanics in the various skilled trades, that the aeroplane and engine were serviceable.


After the paperwork, a quick visual check ensured that the Spitfire looked OK- pre-flight inspections of the aircraft at that time being fairly cursory, amounting to checking that everything was in place and moved (if appropriate). One tended to rely on the fitter and rigger and their colleagues in the Flight to keep an eye on technical matters, although, sooner or later, it was realised that this was a shortsighted approach to any aeroplane.

The pilot was expected to ensure that the aeroplane was parked clear of obstructions, with chocks in front of the wheels and nothing fragile and liable to be blown away behind it, before strapping on the parachute harness (later we did this in the cockpit, with the harness laid out for quick assembly) and then, at last, an ungainly clamber aboard.

By today's standard the cockpit had a rather untidy layout. Despite this, it had the relatively new standard blind-flying panel, as introduced in the Gloster Gladiator and the more recent Miles Master I advanced trainer. It was a great improvement on earlier types, in which instruments were screwed on more or less where there was room for them. The blind-flying panel comprised six instruments grouped in the centre of the main panel, on flexible mountings, For anovice trained on wooden aeroplanes the Spitfire was a little "tinny'' and rather awesome. The "bonnet", sloping steeply upwards and stretching far ahead of the pilot, seemed enormously wide. The view directly ahead was nil. The big exhaust stubs further restricted the view and lent emphasis to the repeated commands of the instructor that the nose must constantly be swung to and fro while taxying, using the differential brakes, to make sure of not hitting anything. This in itself produced problems, because the brakes were operated by compressed air, of which more anon.

In the earliest Spitfires the hood or canopy was flat-topped, allowing the pilot's head to touch it in bumpy air, particularly if the seat was raised near its upper limit. This was both uncomfortable in flight and inconvenient as regards seeing outwards. These hoods were soon changed to the domed type but the sides still tapered, leaving very little sideways room for the head. A break-out panel and a short spiked "crowbar" were incorporated later, to assist sliding the hood back against outside suction in an emergency. Still later a bulged hood replaced the flat-sided type, providing greater comfort. Nevertheless, with all modifications the cockpit was still fairly tightly tailored, especially for a large pilot.

The early windscreen was curved, causing distortion of the view to the side and ahead, and a thick, bullet-proof slab of glass was added to the outside front of the screen. The windscreen in later Spitfires was composed of flat panels and the bullet-proof glass was brought inside, in front of the reflector gunsight. Most of these modifications were the result of experience in the early days of operations, before and during the Battle of Britain. However, it was the fate of many pupils at OTUs at about this time to train on aircraft which were still unmodified. This was in no way a help, but put novice pilots very much on their mettle.


My own first experience was in K9817, a Spitfire I from the first production batch. It was powered by a Rolls- Royce Merlin III driving a two-pitch de Havilland "bracket-type" counterweight operated propeller, controlled by a knob on the instrument panel which was pushed "In" for coarse pitch and pulled "Out" for fine pitch. (Constant-speed propellers were still to come, as far as we were concerned.) Starting, cruise, and stopping engines fitted with these early D.H. propellers was made in coarse pitch, fine pitch being used only when high power was demanded .of the engine, for example take-off; in the climb, during combat and (very important in the case of an overshoot) when landing.

Failure by the pilot to remember to put the propeller into fine pitch for take-off resulted almost inevitably in catastrophe, and the sound of a Spit grinding its way ominously slowly in coarse pitch on take-off, or when overshooting, is something not easily forgotten. Nor is the result.

Having got the Sutton harness done up, and plugged in the radio and oxygen leads, the pilot's next action was to check that the brakes were "on", air pressure and fuel sufficient, both fuel tanks "on" and the engine was ready to start. After checking that the external trolley mounted accumulator battery was plugged in and the engine primed if necessary with the Ki-Gass pump, the throttle would be opened a trifle, After a call of "all clear?" to the groundcrew, the main ignition and starting magneto switches would be turned on, a final call of "Contact" made and the starter button pushed. A thump as the starter dog engaged was followed by a heavy, grinding noise as the engine turned over part of a revolution, followed by a few puffs of blue smoke and, if the throttle had been set correctly, the engine settled down to purr quietly as it warmed up. As soon as the engine fired, the starter button was released and the starter magneto switched off. The groundcrew then disconnected the heavy electric lead to the accumulator, whose "chore horse" charging motor was rattling away on its trolley, and closed the fuselage 12V socket door.

During the short warming-up period the pilot ran through the series of Vital Actions, ensuring that everything worked as it should, particularly the flying and engine controls. The early Spitfires had one rather Small radiator for the ethylene-glycol coolant (rather too small, it seemed, sometimes), so it warmed up quickly. It was located under the starboard wing, where the slipstream was fairly fast, the oil cooler balancing it to port.

Taxying could be hazardous for a. variety of reasons. Apart from the nil-view ahead, the aeroplane was nose-heavy and could not safely be taxied fast in case the brakes were needed in a hurry and, in any case, the narrow-track undercarriage made steering by the differential brakes rather imprecise, unless a burst of throttle was used on the rudder. This required caution because, in turn, it increased the speed, so compounding the problem, and many a novice found himself in difficulty, especially in a gusty tail or crosswind, until he got the hang of the thing.

The radiator had a shutter, a flap operated by the pilot by means of a lever, and it was kept open on the ground while the pilot (if he was wise) kept a hawk-like eye on the radiator temperature. A long taxy downwind could cause stagnation in the cooling airflow and result in a plume of glycol steam and a boiling engine. There was then no option but to switch off as quickly as possible and let it cool down (which was unpopular with the groundcrew, who had to drag out a starter battery), unless one was lucky and could quickly swing into wind and gently increase revs while watching the radiator temperature gauge. Once understood, the system was efficient and would cool quite quickly if the atmosphere was cold.

There was quite a lot to do.

With the cockpit hood locked open, having reached the take-off point, stopped crosswind and facing the circuit traffic, the pilot again made Vital Action checks of instruments, engine (tighten the throttle friction), propeller (in fine pitch), flying controls and trim, as well as making radio contact with Flying Control (ATC in present-day language).

In January 1941 the Grangemouth OTU was operating from a single, newly-built but unfinished runway, the upwind end of which was still occupied by a working and smoking steamroller. There was plenty of room, however, for the sprog pilot, even if it appeared daunting. When you were satisfied that all was in order and (in the absence of a flying control caravan) the downwind visible arc was clear of approaching aircraft, a gentle throttle opening turned you into wind, you straightened the tailwheel and, with a bootful of right rudder to keep the thing straight, the throttle was slowly opened to the take-off stop. Because it was a right-hand tractor unit, the Merlin's powerful torque could cause a dramatic swing to the left while the port wing dipped noticeably towards the ground, a feature of the Spitfire made all the more apparent by its narrow-track undercarriage.

With care and experience this was quite easily managed, but to the novice it was probably the most hair-raising moment of his life. The Spitfire fairly exulted in the power under its big bonnet and, once unleashed and accelerating fast, the beast had to be kept more or less straight and under control and, hopefully, returned undamaged to the care of its groundcrew, who were not uncritical of the performance of the pilot.

An example of this is the often-quoted behavior of the early Spitfire Is, whose hydraulics for raising the undercarriage were hand-pumped, as soon as the aeroplane was well clear of the ground, the pilot, who should have tightened the friction on the throttle lever to prevent it from creeping back, removed his left hand from the throttle and changed it to the stick (as it was still called). He attempted to keep straight and level and on no account climbing for a few seconds, to build up to climbing speed, while keeping a sharp lookout and, with his right hand, moved the "Chassis" (undercarriage) selection lever to "UP". Having done this, he grasped the long, black pump handle, again with his right hand, and began to work it backwards and forwards to retract the wheels.


Having an extremely sensitive elevator control, the Spitfire responded with enthusiasm to any fore and aft movement by the left hand on the stick in sympathy with the pumping action of the right hand. The result could be entertaining for the onlookers, the aeroplane proceeding in an undulating path while the wheels slowly disappeared into the wings. When locked "UP", with red lights showing on the indicator and little tell-tale knobs flush with the upper wing surface, the pilot hanged hands once again, throttled back, closed the hood and climbed at the recommended speed to circuit height of 1,000ft while still trying to keep a sharp lookout for other aircraft in a busy circuit, with other pilots in similar predicaments, possibly not looking where they were going. Hopefully, he also remembered to go into coarse pitch and watch his temperatures and pressures. There was quite a lot to do.

Although the elevators were so light and very sensitive, the same could not be said of the" early fabric-covered ailerons, which became progressively harder to move at high speeds. After a deep breath, one's first ambition was to get the feel of the thing after such an avalanche of events, and then to get it home in one piece.

If there was one really unsatisfactory thing about the Spitfire I, it was its air compressor or pump. Perhaps it was a difficult item to maintain in good order, but the plain fact was that, as it was used to lower the flaps and operate the brakes ( to say nothing of the retractable landing lamps, when night flying), a tired or failed pump and consequent flap and brake failure resulted in a Spitfire seeming to go on for ever when a landing was attempted. A failure in this context included the alarmingly long time taken in flight by these early pumps to build up enough pressure in the air reservoir for the two vital retarding operations, since each flap-lowering and brake application resulted in the complete loss of that amount of air. A flapless and almost brakeless landing on a first solo was not for the faint-hearted.


Being cautious and having made a carefully-judged curved approach (wheels down and propeller in fine pitch) as prescribed, so as to get an idea where I was going, I suddenly became aware that the steamroller had disappeared behind the cowling but would obviously be uncomfortably close to where I was likely to end up. An overshoot was necessary; flaps were retracted at a safe height and speed and the wheels were laboriously pumped up again. A glance at the air reservoir gauge revealed that a lot of air had been used up when lowering the flaps. Another attempt was started, this time not so tidily. A second overshoot had to be made, amid a circuit which seemed to have become uncomfortably full of Spitfires and other types of aircraft, some of which were going considerably more slowly and therefore were overtaken on the outside. The Spitfire was most reluctant to slow down, the throttle when closed too abruptly producing a characteristic series of bangs and splutters as unburnt fuel ignited in the exhaust stubs. By this time the air pressure needle was on the red mark and, as instructed, a departure from the circuit was made to give the system a chance to build up a little, which it did, horribly slowly.

With the hood back and secured, a landing was finally and safely made, but lowering the flaps again had used up almost all the precious available air and the brakes were practically useless.

After taxying well clear of the landing area there was nothing for it but to switch off and await the comments of the rescuing groundcrew who, on this occasion, were pretty good-natured. A "trolley-acc", towed behind a Hillman van carrying a couple of airmen, soon had the engine running again and, with one man on each wingtip for steering, the Spitfire was taxied slowly back to dispersal and switched off, using the slow-running cut-out just in time to prevent the Merlin boiling in disgust at the treatment to which it had been subjected by yet another ham-handed pupil.



With the whirr of the gyros and the ticking of the engine, which was already beginning to cool, there remained only the need to open the hinged door, grasp the top of the windscreen and thankfully hoist oneself up on the seat, clamber over the side on to the wing and then step down on to the ground, with a curious feeling of elation and relief that all that training was good enough after all. The Spitfire had accepted me as a partner in one of the most exciting and demanding combined operations. The final act was to sign the Authorisation Book with a DCO (Duty Carried Out, if it had been!).

It should be remembered that, in wartime, pupils came in all sizes and with all sorts of capabilities within the overall scope of the RAF's training scheme. It says a great deal for the Service's instructors that some of the thousands of pupils survived at all, let alone achieved the overall success they did. Today's aircraft cannot bear comparison, even though their pilots are just the same, but what of their training? The difference, over 50-odd years, is a phenomenon.

Nothing can overshadow the inspiration of R.J. Mitchell and the wonderful Supermarine team who were able to create such an amenable yet potent fighter.

The Spitfire was an aeroplane which the late Jeffrey Quill, the company's great chief test pilot, described as "a real lady".

For this pupil, flying it was very much a case of losing my heart, not for the first time perhaps, but to an aeroplane which was demanding but forgiving and which clawed me out of trouble (not always of my own making) on numerous occasions to follow - particularly when I was posted as the test pilot in charge at a Maintenance Unit.

Once grasped, the Spitfire Mk I and her successors, like the lady or the nettle, was not only pretty but fairly harmless when properly treated.


Article appeared in Aeroplane Monthly, July 1996
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Ian Warren » Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:50 pm

Killratio wrote:In the earliest Spitfires the hood or canopy was flat-topped, allowing the pilot's head to touch it in bumpy air, particularly if the seat was raised near its upper limit. This was both uncomfortable in flight and inconvenient as regards seeing outwards. These hoods were soon changed to the domed type but the sides still tapered, leaving very little sideways room for the head. A break-out panel and a short spiked "crowbar" were incorporated later, to assist sliding the hood back against outside suction in an emergency. Still later a bulged hood replaced the flat-sided type, providing greater comfort. Nevertheless, with all modifications the cockpit was still fairly tightly tailored, especially for a large pilot.

That is interesting, "early raising seat" , this was one thing mentioned was removed and replaced with the bubble canopy , did the late models adjusting seat, I was told these option were removed as a weight saver even before being deployed.
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Killratio » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:36 pm

Not sure where that comes from Ian? All marques of Spitfire had the raising/lowering gear on the seat. The early seats were metal, later, almost all were a synthetic bonded resin incorrectly referred to as "plastic'.
Taller pilots could really only use it on takeoff/landing when the canopy was open.


VERY early seat Original production batch.

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Later but still early metal, later batches Mk I but also used for later marques sometimes (seemingly at random).

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Synthetic .. introduced as an alternative, originally for Castlebromwich aircraft originally (Spitfire II) but later expanded to almost takeover ... despite some problems with breaking!Later, metal seats became highly prized by pilots.

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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Ian Warren » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:46 pm

This is from two Alfred Price books I have here "despite some problems with breaking" I wonder if it was a field modification , I'd have to go back thru the books, have one other here were the pilot put a pillow in and think even Douglas Bader had thing removed and modified to suit him.
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Killratio » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:59 pm

Ah... I think you will find that the good Dr is talking about the "plastic" seat breaking WHEN being raised and lowered or in hard turns. I've never heard of the lifting mechanism breaking but early problems with the Sutton Harness fouling the mechanism DID lead to the hole being put in the right side of the seat to accommodate the right lap belt and keep it clear. The lifting mechanism itself is built like a brick shi.....well..you know...

D
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Ian Warren » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:19 pm

Course during the period so pressed for aircraft and the cunning of the pilot and their attitude, if little things broke it is simply was use it, maybe that is were the wording of having an adjustable seat was out of the question.
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Ian Warren » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:25 pm

I do like that photo reference, now have me in search for further detail and information ... I was given the straight up they did not have adjusting seats so pleased you posted this Darryl :)
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Killratio » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:33 pm

My pleasure Ian!

I am yet to tackle the seat lift but will probably make it mechanically non-functioning.... but with the lever connected to an encoder which raises and lowers the view in P3D.
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Killratio » Sun May 14, 2017 6:57 pm

At last, some progress.

Frame 8 getting nearer each day. I've now learned all of the skills I needed to build the frame to "spec".

One blank and one partly formed sheet.

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To the right, the other two sheets, almost ready to be riveted together with the stiffener/spacers.

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Predrilled with rivet holes and with the swaged lightening holes all done.

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First lot of aircraft rivets..a whole new skill/technique for me!

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An example of the internal spacers/strengtheners

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the forward side profile...as this is not seen from the cockpit, I have used pop rivest to make assembly quicker and easier

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Finally a REALLY nice pickup from Replica Aircraft Parts today, a pair of early, single step rudder pedals..




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They will need stripping because the originals were bare metal sealed with a silver/grey protective coat. I'm also torn but haven't made a final decision yet, on the fact that first ones (my aircraft was only the 31st Spitfire ever built) actually used fire hose, cut up and rivetted on, for the "stirrups", not leather as these repos have. Don't you just LOVE trying to do things accurately.
Killratio
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Re: Spitfire Sim (For Ian... PHOTO HEAVY!)

Postby Ian Warren » Mon May 15, 2017 12:15 pm

Thankx Darryl, I'll get back to on that .
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Ian Warren
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