FFS Closing Down

[scon]

I guess Bob Jones may be slamming it but he was howiever a member of the Dev team so I guess that gives him a bit more justification


I was displeased mostly with FFS because the Saab was said to have a patch and a FSX update released and for them to suddenly close down for some internal reason I did not see as being acceptable.

[victor_alpha_charlie]

There is a support forum for current users at FSIMCAFE FORUMS Even if you haven't purchased it click the link anyway, another great fs forum, but it has members from all around the world, even though it's slightly smaller.

[Bingobob]

I just come to the conclussion (gee I am slow ) that if I spent all my time looking at Flightsim forums I probably would not have time to look at any other forums or enjoying the flightsimulator that got me looking at the flight sim forums

[Bob Jones]

Devils adocate here 

1, What proof do we have that Bob Jones is part of the Development Team?  Like Alex said "The influence that one person has over a team of others".

2, Who owns the domain name and website rights of FFS?  Wont be a development team idea to close the website if someone else has Domain and server rights?

3, If the product does not come up to expectations, not recieved or is faulty under the Consumer Credits Act you pay online with a credit card you place the item in dispute and no contact is able to be made to the retailer or satisfactory reply recieved (open to interpretation) your Credit Card transaction can be reversed.

It comes as no surprise to see no updates to certain products with the arrival of a another version of FS neither does it to hear that people like Lee Swordy, Mike Stone and a few silent others have departed the public flightsimming scene.

Bob the other Bob

Bingobob,

1, I've been involved with the FS scene for many years, I started at POSKY, moved to PMDG where I made the master textures for the 737 and 1900D, I then moved to FFS. If you still don't believe who I am, all you need to do is to check out the FFS forum at Avsim http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az= ... &forum=246.

If you need further proof, ask any of the owners at POSKY or get in contact with my old kiwi mate John Tavendale.

2, FFS own the domain, it is run by Kathryn Payne who is CEO. Kathryn has no input to what FFS does. The project manager is her husband Gregg Payne, it was his and his idea alone to close FFS down. The promised updates/fixes were not even started. Now that FFS is closing, be under no illusion, you will not get support for any FFS product.

3, You will have a hard fight to get back any monies owed to you, I repeat and stand by my original post regarding Gregg Payne. He has conned the dev team and the customer base.

4, If you still do not believe me, go buy the product and on the 1st of May, try and get support. Do not include the dev team in your condemnation of developers, we have had no contact with the FFS management team since early Nov 06.
We have tried everything we can to get ourselves heard and to warn potential customers not to waste their hard earned money on a product that will no longer be supported.

At this moment, Greggs brother Kobie is deleting posts at the avsim FFS forum. Now if that doesn't tell you something about that team, then nothing will. You have a choice to either save your money or to swell one mans pocket for something that will be gone in a couple of days.

Regards,

Bob Jones

Edited to add to post.

Draw everyones attention to DEVILS ADVOCATE start to my post.

1, I never heard of you but then again I have never heard of a lot of people

1a, The names of the development team is not listed.

2, Yes I see Gregg Payne listed as the domain owner, thanks for clearing it up what confuses me is who is actually closing the website?

3, Like I said if you paid by Credit Card you will get your money back providing you have sufficant proof and cause to justify the refund and the complaint is lodged within a reasonable time of the purchase appearing on your statement. I know have been there and done that with a few products that have not had support or reached my expectations.
Pretty slanderous remarks to make on a public forum and one I think Admin should be aware of.

4, It wont be the first or the last product anyone buys that no longer has support as always with any product its buyer beware which goes back to Consumer Guarentees Acts.

I am sorry but for a new member to start slamming a product and its developer on this forum it would not be tolerated if aimed at one of its local developers as has happened.

Why should we allow this to happen with a product we know little on the developers?

Hi Bingobob,

1, you have every right to question who I am.

1a, Kathryn Payne • President "“ Flight Factory-Simulations, LLC

Mark "Gippy' Gipson • Gauge and Systems Programming
• Documentation
Bryan "Kobie' Payne-Kobal • 3D Panel Designer & Renderings
• 3D Aircraft Modeling
• Gauge Bit-mapping
• Saab 340 Sounds - GPWS
• Documentation "“ Vector Graphics

Bob "Olgit' Jones • Graphic Artist "“ Texture Art
• Night Lighting Effects

Nick Peterson • Flight Dynamics Engineer

Dmitry Polyankovsky • Saab LCM Designer
• Applications Engineer

Steve Abrahart • Documentation
• Graphic Artist

Greggory Payne "“ Project Manager • 3D Aircraft Modeler
• Documentation
• Applications Engineer & Layout

Private Contractor Development Team

Lee Hetherington • Applications Engineer "“ TCAS
Aaron Swindle "“ Sky Song Sound Works • Saab 340 Sounds

2, no problem. Gregg Payne is closing the FFS web site down.

3, I have no idea how the law works, but we have been informed that FFS is going bankrupt. If thats the case, then I believe no money will be refunded.
Maybe the remarks are scanderous, but so is what Gregg has done to the customer base and dev team.

4, very true, but this time we wanted to warn people about what was happening.

This slamming would never have had happened if Gregg had been upfront and honest with the dev team and customer base in the first place, I make no apologies for my first post, it was written to warn people.

If the admin on these boards wish to remove the posts and me, I will fully understand. Mark Gipson (one of the dev team) has now opened a support forum on his FSimcafe web site.

[Alex]

Righto, so the 'slanderous' comment we have is this;

...we have come to the conclusion that he is nothing more than a liar and a thief.

To me this implies that a group of people have come together and decided what they think the person is like => therefore an opinion held by that group of people, and - to me at least - a valid opinion.

The second phrase which stated what the first phrase implied has been edited to refer back to that first phrase, which is an opinion.

Alex

[merlin]

3, I have no idea how the law works, but we have been informed that FFS is going bankrupt. If thats the case, then I believe no money will be refunded.

Wrong....Bingobob is in fact right you are protected from this kind of thing on the internet. Any transaction paid by a Credit Card can be placed in dispute with the credit card company.
Transaction conducted by telephone or the Internet are in 99.9% of case refunded without arguement if the buyer states they have not recieved the goods or where the seller refuses to reply to telephone or Email correspondance.

To be honest this kind of slamming on public forums is disgraceful and Alex your saying that because a small band of disgruntled people or person want to call someone a liar and a thief thats ok. Thats not up to you or I to decide is it? There are correct authorities to follow this up if true. Seem to remember that this has happened several times before? that can get you into trouble if your not careful too.

So what move on.

[mavman]

Besides the politics, what are the merits of the FFS Saab? Is it a decent enough model?, is the support needed for it?
I know there aren't many decent Saab340 models for FS, wondering what this ones like? does anyone here have it and if so whats it like??

[jastheace]

well from my brief time flying it, it was great, sounded like a real one, cockpit looks like a real one (spent a bit of time in them on the ground talking to pilots while refueling the saabs). not 100% sure on the flight dynamics, but it seems to fly as i remember it from a passengers perspective, i enjoyed it.

[Alex]

Was the really only decent Saab, and the only payware one as far as I know. The Saab is to FFS as the Beech 1900D is to PMDG.

Alex

[mavman]

Great thanks guys

[ooOO00OOoo]

QUOTE(merlin @ Apr 14 2007, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To be honest this kind of slamming on public forums is disgraceful and Alex your saying that because a small band of disgruntled people or person want to call someone a liar and a thief thats ok. Thats not up to you or I to decide is it? There are correct authorities to follow this up if true. Seem to remember that this has happened several times before? that can get you into trouble if your not careful too.

So what move on.

Ok, ok i know this post was in the past.....
There are other posts on other forums warning people of the situation in the past...In this context In honest opinion I think that his warning shouldn't have had this. Yes he is new but on other forums there were warnings saying the same thing. Only someone with no life would have gone on forums and done this just for kicks. So I agree with Alex's point...

QUOTE(Alex)

To me this implies that a group of people have come together and decided what they think the person is like => therefore an opinion held by that group of people, and - to me at least - a valid opinion.[/quote]

Other warning from other site = valid warning on this site(in my opinion)
Thanks
James

[Alex]

Yea, it was a long time ago - not much point bringing up this discussion again imho - its water under the bridge.

Alex