Queenstown

[boldpilot]

When flying into Queenstown pilots really earn their pay .Try an IFR approach in rainy weather in a Bae 146. boldpilot

[Ian Warren]

Have a very good friend who flew 146s into QN , had a rep for loadin more fuel on for diversion in case , he now flys the Tas PacificBlue , 146 's long left our shores but where the best short field 4 's into an airport lke that .. 94/96 Wanaka man see this guy operate the plane , BOY RACER ! NO ..Pilot u yeah!

[Jimmy]

Was controling on IVAO the other day and had a qantas guy in a 767-300 in to NZQN. He was a good pilot, but I was damn funny when he reported his second missed approach and go around

He said something about the vor/dme approach leaving him to high. I haven't flown to nzqn for ages.. maby do it again sometime and try that 05 vor/dme in my 76.. Iv just got an afcad and robins photoreal there now, had to delete the .bgls from Peters nzqn as even a simple visual approach was impossible with 4fps....

James

[boldpilot]

I tried landing a 737 and finished up in the sea.boldpilot

[jastheace]

i have just landed a 732 in queenstown with wind 315@ 18 with gust up to 40, that was fun, will post pics now

[nzav8tor]

Oh this one is just begging for a tutorial...!

When I get some time I will make one for some of the SIDs and approaches as they require some good technique and awareness to make work in any aircraft but especially something heavy such as 737 or A320.

Stay tuned...

[jastheace]

look forward to it, thanks

[Codge]

I have a Vid about NZ's 737 fleet and it shows a flight to from CHCH- Qtn with 49 souls on board and the right fuel for a possible divert to Invercargill. The threshhold approach speed was only 113 knots! So bear that in mind when making that hop and make sure you have the aircraft fueled properly ie-not too much!
The BAE 146 gets a mention on the same vid and the pilot praises it as a good short field aircraft but lacks the 'punch' up at altitude that the 73 has.

[deeknow]

I know this is an old thread but I just happened to read it and it reminded me of when my wife and I were skiing
last year in Queenstown. We were up @ Coronet peak taking a break and looking down over the valley when
I see this Qantas 737? do a clockwise loop around that hill on the flats just to the north and drop down into
the airport.

The thing that really made an impression on us was that we were LOOKING DOWN on this whole thing
happening below us, the aircraft was below us through the whole manouver, twas like watching some
model-airport, quite surreal, and an impressive looking bit of flying.

I've done a few flights in FS9 recently back-n-fwds between NZCH and NZQN in an ATR, definately
a hair raising virtual experience, hate to think what is like in the real thing in dodgy weather

[greaneyr]

They were probably flying the RNP approach into Queenstown when you saw that circle. It's a circular approach with vertical guidance, based entirely on RNAV technologies including GNSS and aircraft-based augmentation.

[AlisterC]

Of course to elaborate on Greaneyr, only a 737NG from Qantas Australia could fly that procedure. The NZ Qantas 737 early generation aircraft (300 and 400) to my knowledge are not equipped for rnav approaches. Air New Zealand's entire 737 is also not all fully equipped. It's something like 5 planes out of the 15 that are. If you could actually see down on him, the weather must have been pretty good, so he could have just been doing a visual arrival perhaps..
Qantas fly their NG's over from Sydney in the winter.
Charts for Queenstown, including the Rnav approaches: http://www.aip.net.nz/NavWalk.aspx?section...tree=Queenstown

[deeknow]

QUOTE (Albatross @ Mar 27 2008, 07:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Charts for Queenstown, including the Rnav approaches:

Thanx, just looked over those, your (both) right the approach was exactly the one on the RWY23 RNAV chart.
(well I say exactly, I was hardly monitoring them with a theodolite or anything, but it seems right)

So are the crew on these RNAV equipped 737's actually plotting that series of way-points in and around the basin
with their individual elevations and really sitting there in the cockpit, fingers crossed, and watching it all happen
pretty much until touchdown?

Pretty snazzy, but terrifying prospect in bad-weather for passengers if they knew what was really going on.

Whats the short dotted route leaving the airport swinging left over KLVNN, is that a go-around sort of escape
route or missed approach thingy?

[chickenman]

QUOTE (Albatross @ Mar 27 2008, 07:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course to elaborate on Greaneyr, only a 737NG from Qantas Australia could fly that procedure. The NZ Qantas 737 early generation aircraft (300 and 400) to my knowledge are not equipped for rnav approaches. Air New Zealand's entire 737 is also not all fully equipped. It's something like 5 planes out of the 15 that are. If you could actually see down on him, the weather must have been pretty good, so he could have just been doing a visual arrival perhaps..
Qantas fly their NG's over from Sydney in the winter.
Charts for Queenstown, including the Rnav approaches: http://www.aip.net.nz/NavWalk.aspx?section...tree=Queenstown

I understand that the ANZ A320's are also now certified on the rnav approach as of about may last year?

The other thing to note is that if you could see the aircraft from Coronet Peak then the RNAV aproach was not active. It is only activated when the cloud base is below vor/dme minimums. The rnav approach follws the route that is taken by visual aporaches around the basin when circling to land out of the vor/dme approach, which is visual from about 4700' for the ALFA & Bravo Approaches. The base buildings are 3600' at Coronet, and the rnav approach is 3500' at about Coronet.

The visual approach is still by far the most common approach into NZQN (i'd estimate 60%), followed by the vor/dme (35%) & rnav (5% absolute maximum but probably much less). I have the scanner tuned here at work and get the ctr/qn handoff from the pilot. when cleared on the vor/dme approach a majority of the time the pilots requests the visual approach.

It's a great airport to listen to atc as it is such a demanding approach.

Jamie

[chickenman]

QUOTE (deeknow @ Mar 26 2008, 08:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We were up @ Coronet peak taking a break and looking down over the valley when
I see this Qantas 737? do a clockwise loop around that hill on the flats just to the north and drop down into
the airport.

The thing that really made an impression on us was that we were LOOKING DOWN on this whole thing
happening below us, the aircraft was below us through the whole manouver, twas like watching some
model-airport, quite surreal, and an impressive looking bit of flying.

I was doing some work on the hill that the 737 went around - Morven Hill. That was really cool because they were so close, pretty much level with the top of the hill or the ATRs which would come in below the hill level. best day of not working i've had!

Jamie

[deeknow]

QUOTE (chickenman @ Mar 27 2008, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

they were so close, pretty much level with the top of the hill or the ATRs which would come in below the hill level. best day of not working i've had!

Sweet. BTW Jamie, you can imagine why I'm asking about the 737s, now that I'm "entitled" to fly the things and all...

[Timmo]

QUOTE (chickenman @ Mar 27 2008, 12:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The other thing to note is that if you could see the aircraft from Coronet Peak then the RNAV aproach was not active. It is only activated when the cloud base is below vor/dme minimums.

I think the Qantas aircraft HAVE to fly a instrument arrival into Queenstown regardless of the weather- Something to do with a near miss a few a years ago.

[chickenman]

QUOTE (Timmo @ Apr 7 2008, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the Qantas aircraft HAVE to fly a instrument arrival into Queenstown regardless of the weather- Something to do with a near miss a few a years ago.

Read that as 'Are Supposed To'. Trans-Tasman & Domestic Qantas will accept whichever approach is active, including visual. Although there is a tendancy for Trans Tasman to request the RNAV where the VOR approaches are active. Even if they do come in on the VOR, they'll call visual as soon as possible and circle to land visually.

[macbe327]

QUOTE (chickenman @ Apr 8 2008, 08:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Read that as 'Are Supposed To'. Trans-Tasman & Domestic Qantas will accept whichever approach is active, including visual. Although there is a tendancy for Trans Tasman to request the RNAV where the VOR approaches are active. Even if they do come in on the VOR, they'll call visual as soon as possible and circle to land visually.

Some misinformation in this thread... At the moment:
Qantas Intl will only fly RNP approaches and departures into NZQN
Qantas domestic (jetconnect) will only fly the VOR based approaches and departures - no visuals (company policy - they also must carry out the VOR approach to the MAPt, no breaking off early unlike other operators) and they are not able to carry out RNP.
Air NZ 737s will most often do visual approaches, if conditions are below visual approach minima and the crew/aircraft are RNP able then 90% of the time they will do RNP if not then VOR/DME.
and at this stage I believe ANZ A320s can only carry out the RNP down to around 5000ft before they must be visual unlike the 737s which have much lower minima. This will change as they do more approaches and are authorised lower.

Air NZ still carry out RNP on visual days for training as not all crews are certified for IMC RNP yet

[boldpilot]

QUOTE (macbe327 @ Apr 25 2008, 09:29 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some misinformation in this thread... At the moment:
Qantas Intl will only fly RNP approaches and departures into NZQN
Qantas domestic (jetconnect) will only fly the VOR based approaches and departures - no visuals (company policy - they also must carry out the VOR approach to the MAPt, no breaking off early unlike other operators) and they are not able to carry out RNP.
Air NZ 737s will most often do visual approaches, if conditions are below visual approach minima and the crew/aircraft are RNP able then 90% of the time they will do RNP if not then VOR/DME.
and at this stage I believe ANZ A320s can only carry out the RNP down to around 5000ft before they must be visual unlike the 737s which have much lower minima. This will change as they do more approaches and are authorised lower.

Air NZ still carry out RNP on visual days for training as not all crews are certified for IMC RNP yet

I have just installed some approaches from Avsim called "Doherty's Difficult and Dangerous Approaches" ,one of which is Queenstown in a 737. I did three attemps manual control before I got it right. Try the one at Oakridge in the USA in a Lear ,the problem here is getting the thing to slow down.BP

[chickenman]

QUOTE (macbe327 @ Apr 20 2008, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some misinformation in this thread... At the moment:
Qantas Intl will only fly RNP approaches and departures into NZQN
Qantas domestic (jetconnect) will only fly the VOR based approaches and departures - no visuals (company policy - they also must carry out the VOR approach to the MAPt, no breaking off early unlike other operators) and they are not able to carry out RNP.
Air NZ 737s will most often do visual approaches, if conditions are below visual approach minima and the crew/aircraft are RNP able then 90% of the time they will do RNP if not then VOR/DME.
and at this stage I believe ANZ A320s can only carry out the RNP down to around 5000ft before they must be visual unlike the 737s which have much lower minima. This will change as they do more approaches and are authorised lower.

Air NZ still carry out RNP on visual days for training as not all crews are certified for IMC RNP yet

More than happy to post the wav's of Qantas requesting visual via the Cromwell Gorge (sic). Latest one I have is from February this year.