Skyhawks are now outside

[deaneb]

All but three Skyhawks were moved into outside storage at Woodbourne today. They have been sprayed in white latex (spraylat) and I believe there will be articles on both One and 3 News.

Deane

[steelsporran]

I reckon we should keep one as a gate guardian and sell the rest equally to both sides in a war somewhere.
Sod the yanks, that would be fair wouldn't it?

[2fst4u]

i reckon we should fire them up! they would be way more fun than iroquois' to fly in on our base visit next year!

[Charl]

QUOTE (steelsporran @ Dec 12 2007, 04:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I reckon we should keep one as a gate guardian and sell the rest equally to both sides in a war somewhere.
Sod the yanks, that would be fair wouldn't it

Haha then we could do the same with "our" F-16's.
With the resulting profits we could buy a dozen Flankers!

[ardypilot]

Just wondering, do the airforce still have all their old Macchi jets mothballed at an airbase somewhere or did they sell them overseas?

[deaneb]

QUOTE (Trolly @ Dec 12 2007, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just wondering, do the airforce still have all their old Macchi jets mothballed at an airbase somewhere or did they sell them overseas?

They are all in a hangar at Ohakea - some still fly every few months

Deane

[ZK-KAG]

QUOTE (Trolly @ Dec 12 2007, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just wondering, do the airforce still have all their old Macchi jets mothballed at an airbase somewhere or did they sell them overseas?

The Macchis are occasional visitors to the Palmy circuit, doing some high speed overshoots and even a few touch and goes

[Naki]

QUOTE (Trolly @ Dec 12 2007, 06:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just wondering, do the airforce still have all their old Macchi jets mothballed at an airbase somewhere or did they sell them overseas?

The Macchis aren't that old they have PLENTY of life in them - first went in service 1991 - mothballed 2001 - at least 15-20 years of life left in them

[ardypilot]

QUOTE

They are all in a hangar at Ohakea - some still fly every few months[/quote]
Ah ok, thats new to me! I'd never heard about them untill recently.. any got photos of them in action? Why don't they fly them at airshows and the like?

PS- Saw the report on the news. Whos going to make some static white Skyhawks for the Woodbourne scenery then?

Last edited by ardypilot on Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[deaneb]

QUOTE (Trolly @ Dec 12 2007, 07:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whos going to make some static white Skyhawks for the Woodbourne scenery then?

Well at least the textures will be easy !!

Actually the first coat of spray lat was black - they looked quite knarly in black. The white is then sprayed on top of that.

Deane

[A185F]

so sad. such a shame. Any photos dean ?

[deaneb]

QUOTE (A185F @ Dec 12 2007, 09:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so sad. such a shame. Any photos dean ?

I'll see if I can get some tomorrow.

Deane

[kiwiflyboy]

Here is a link to the article on stuff.co.nz with a pic

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4322648a11.html

[deaneb]

Former Skyhawk avionics technician Don Simms said: "This is the final nail in the coffin "“ they'll never fly again. They're absolutely stuffed."

That guy does not know what he is talking about. The Skyhawks are preserved and regardless of being inside or out, will still need maintenance before they fly again. They are not stuffed thats for sure.

Deane

[A185F]

Dean,
He was claiming 30 mil to get them airworthy again Which is not all that less than 2mil a plane. That sounds a bit far fetched to me. What would be your estimate to a cost per aeroplane to get airworthy...? I understand the kahu kits will take a fair bit work as well as engine inspections/overhaul etc but really 2 mil worth ? I also understand some are in better condition than others with regard fatigue etc true ?
Would it not be impossible to remove the kahu kits, make training aids and museum pieces to the ones not worth saving (cost wise), the ones that are, flick them through a basic IRAN program, fit em with a basic VFR avionics setup and sell em off individually to the highest bidder ??? or even just remove the kahu and sell as is where is..? Sure it's a bit more complecated that that but how much really..?

Methinks it's about time for the goverment to wake up, admit their (huge) mistake, cut their losses and get rid of em. Stop wasting tax payers money !!

[deaneb]

I have no idea of the costs involved. As far as I know the deal is proceeding, its just a matter of waiting for the US State Department to make a decision, that is all. Overseas buyers are very keen as they are such good planes.

I don't know that removing Kahu gear is an easy option given the integration of the systems - but I'm no expert on Skyhawks.

Deane

[Jenks]

The Skyhawks ARE effectively 'stuffed'. If you read/listen more carefully you will note that he says that any sale would require the aircraft to be in working order - something which they are a LONG way away from now. Many parts are time expired and some have no replacements available. There are also no personnel available that are capable of all the work necessary to get them airworthy - the government sacked them all remember...

The government will never be willing to spend those sort of amounts. Politically they are in hot water already with the imaginary buyers still failing to materialise. Having to admit that they haven't maintained the aircraft adequately and that they are unsaleable in their current state without yet another substantial investment, will not be somewhere that they would go. The government's intention has probably always been to just hope that we all forget about the aircraft over time. Most people accept that the sale was NEVER achievable.

The Macchis fall into the same category. They were never going to able to be sold - although in their case it was mainly down to their ongoing engine problems.

The imaginary buyers for the Skyhawks have never fronted up in public and to the best of my knowledge have been quoted variously as bankrupt, or never having had that sort of money.

There has yet to be ANY evidence produced that the sale of the Skyhawks was ever anything other than a fairytale... politics at its worst is all it could ever be accurately described as, or more particularly Helen Clark's personal agenda, and the government is obviously never going to admit to that.

Finally, they can no longer really be described as 'good planes'. Consider that they were running out of life when we still had them operational - that's why the F16s were being purchased. Having them rot in a hangar for years didn't help their saleability, but putting them outside is going to make them even worse. The spraylat will give some protection but not enough, particularly as they have only covered some areas with plastic bags, cardboard and tape! Corrosion from moist, salt laden air will not be stopped by cardboard.

Just in case anyone thinks this is just a personal opinion, have a read at http://rnzaf.proboards43.com/index.cgi?board=Postwar
There are some knowledgeable people contributing on those forums.

[ZK-Brock]

Seems like a right shambles to me. Not that I know a lot about it but didnt the govt gave a wellington iwi a $25 million handout and a whole bunch of wellington land not very long ago?? Couldnt that money have instead gone towards the 30mil needed to get the flying again so they can be sold?

[Timmo]

I liken it to letting the warrant and rego lapse on your car....if you just keep up up the maintanence on your car then its not that expensive; if you let the car sit in your front yard for six months then it is going to take a lot of time and money to get it road worthy again.

The A-4s are effectively stuffed and are worth little more than scrap. The Macchis might be worth something but would be hard to sell. Any replacement is a long way away and will cost a lot of money, not just for the initial purchase but the retraining of technicians and pilots etc.

It is going to take a very committed government, that is in office for a few terms to get us back to where we were....

Then again......im still not convinced we need them. It pains me to say it but...

[twinstarda42]

Hi this is my first post on this forum, without stepping on anyone's toes Deaneb posts would more than likely be a lot closer to the truth in regards to this matter than anything printed on the rnzafproboard or anywhere else, as he is based at woobourne, whereas most over at proboard are way outside the loop and have somehow come to the conclusion that the are knackered, apart from a few(serving Rnzaf personnel) that don't engage in that particular forum thread.

don't know if any of you know that it take well over two years to get Export/ import clearence to NZ for NVG goggles from the us state dept - employed by the helicopter rescue services here in nz, let alone getting clearence to import combat capable aircraft into the US, a few years ago the US customs service packed a hissie fit in regards to one of the aircraft that attended the WOW show on leaving the USA( I think it was a Corsair not 100% sure thou) via ship as it could be used be terrorist and it nearly didn't attend the show. the US are very paranoid in regards to that sort of thing.

in regards to regenarating the aircraft back to flight that would not be done by the air force-Safe air is under contract to do that(re: staff available) if the sale goes ahead( and if I understand it according to the collings foundation in the usa they are the authority on skyhawk maintenance on the planet their words not mine) the US regularly bring aircraft back into service that have been sitting in the desert amarc for over 10-20 years that are in worse condition than the skyhawks at woodbourne with very little trouble.

as far as I know the aircraft up until this year were regularly engine run and the systems were reguarly checked most of what is beeing seen(condition wise) is surface like paint not structurely.(apart from a few that may need a heavier level of maintenance)

if the sale was not proceding the aermacchis would also be sitting in a hanger gathering dust-they are regularly kept in flying condition because of it.

in regards to the sale the US STATE DEPT is a Bureauocratic dinosaur and such it takes time-thing don't just happen in flash.

cheers.