Aviation Industry

[Kelburn]

I would like to know.
I also have a few questions which are probably best answered by those who are pilots or are closely related in the aviation industry as I am a hopeful future airline pilot.

[Ian Warren]

One other to add Tui , Aviation Historian or Writer or Photographer .... Simulation Builder

[Naki]

What about I dont do any of the above - just interested in aviation?

[A185F]

mmm well if there was "I am an employed pilot" I would tick that. Hopefully in a little while i can tick top one

[Kelburn]

by airline pilot I sort of meant employed pilot. So you can consider yourself under that category (just not quite @ a 747 level yet ).
A185F how are you employed as a pilot (what do you do?)

[A185F]

i drop meat bombs and have done for the last year an a bit. Not for much longer though moving on to bigger toys.

[HardCorePawn]

Currently torn between:

"I hold just a pilots licence and work in another industry"

and

"I am training to hopefully be an airline pilot"

As the first one currently applies (PPL - work in IT), and I am seriously considering the 2nd (as I was 'sort of' greenlighted by the financial controller last night to do my CPL)...

Also, if it helps, my wife works for an airline

[FlyingKiwi]

I'm training to hopefully be an airline pilot, currently holding a PPL.

[kiwiflyboy]

Hold CPL and instructing with a 'C' cat rating, whilst re-continuing my MEIR and churning out my ATPL subjects////

[jastheace]

I am an aircraft refueller, who would love to be a pilot in training, just don't have the $8,000 to do it!!

[towerguy]

Currently ATC - but previously pilot both PPL/NZ civil and militaryNZ and Australian CPL and cat3 instructor (all fixed wing)

cheers

[Kelburn]

1st of my many to come questions:

With ATC, how much (give a general amount don't say exact for your own privacy) do you/they get on average a year?
and how many hours per day and how many days per week do you work?

[ZK-Brock]

QUOTE (Kelburn @ Mar 9 2008, 08:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1st of my many to come questions:

With ATC, how much (give a general amount don't say exact for your own privacy) do you/they get on average a year?
and how many hours per day and how many days per week do you work?

I flew with an instructor recently who was about to start an ATC job, he told me 60k annual pay. Towerguy will be more precise I'm sure

[towerguy]

about 60k starters is about right but you get penal rates on top which after tax generally pay the tax so 60k would be take home- this is approx as there is a sliding scale that goes up with experience and there are different loadings and gradings for different sectors - ie radar/international tower/domestic tower/ oceanic etc. after nearly 20yrs I can tick the 100k plus box pre tax.
not sure if they are getting rid of the upfront 12k YOU PAY for the training yet.

sounds great but - and there is always a but! get used to long term shift work and the toll it will take on you. you will have to pass medicals same as a pilot and if you lose the medical then you lose the job. single employer in NZ if you want to move it has to be overseas. everything you say and do will be taped and definitely WILL be used against you in a court of law and in the media ( both of which know nothing about aviation but that doesn't stop them being experts!)
every pilot will disagree with your every decision because they could have made number one there!- never mind the 14 other aircraft at the holding point.
you will be subject to all manner of desk bound idiots second guessing decisions and procedures when they know less than the average gnats dick about moving tin.
if you can hack all of the above while still going home with a smile for your wife/girlfriend/ significant other - not worry about where your teenager was all night last night and can laugh when you see the new dent in the rear of the car - then maybe you will have a good shot at this lark.

but make up your mind quickly -
remember that when that B733 calls up on the visual approach over weymouth you have about 120-150 seconds before his rubber is on your concrete - in that time you have to avoid the helicopter at clendon park, launch the B1900 at the hold, line up the holding B733 behind it, answer the phone from the terminal radar controller, acknowledge the two other aircraft that call up ready approaching the holding point, give the two islanders at browns island zone entry instructions, let the helo at the international helipad launch to the north, answer a query from the ground controller about getting a vehicle on the runway, tell the B744 at whitford to continue approach number two to the B733, check the B1900 has turned on the sid and then launch the B733 and have it airborne --- luckily the weather is okay while this is all going on.
sometimes it can get busy as well ...

as I said 120-150 seconds then some mahogany bomber pilot will take a fortnight to reflect on this and then tell you that you used an incorrect phraseology in there somewhere!

if you ignore the surrounding bloody morons the actual job is really great and you can get a real buzz of satisfaction when things are really humming. it sure beats working for a living!

[Kelburn]

Do you need only a Class Three Medical for ATC (that's what I read in the CAA website I think or somewhere).
Towerguy, what do you do for ATC?

I am thinking of possibly becoming atc as well as a pilot (not both, either or)

[greaneyr]

I really can't comment for how stressful the ATC environment is, but I can certainly say this. Xavius ATCC has been cited by many real-life controllers as being a most realistic simulation of the radar control environment from the stress point of view. I used to 'play' it.. Play is not really the word. There's not a lot of 'fun' to be had. It's extremely demanding, physically and mentally and after a 30 minute session on ATCC I would usually come away feeling the same way as I did after having sat a 3 hour exam. It's extremely challenging and hard to keep your mind moving fast enough to pick up everything it needs to.

Having said that, it's extremely rewarding at the end to see that you've handled it fine and everyone has landed/departed safely.

Where am I going with this? I'd say, grab yourself a copy and give it a decent go for a decent length of time. It should be a good way of introducing you to the environment and some of the demands towerguy spoke of. Then you can find out whether or not it's for you. It's free too, so why not?

Go to www.xavius.com if you're interested.

[Alex]

QUOTE (Kelburn @ Mar 10 2008, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Do you need only a Class Three Medical for ATC (that's what I read in the CAA website I think or somewhere).

Yep, it is a Class 3 Medical to be able to control, check out http://airways.co.nz/careers/careers_index.asp for some generic careers info if you are interested.

QUOTE (Kelburn @ Mar 10 2008, 04:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Towerguy, what do you do for ATC?

The hint is in his name, and the picture in his avatar (Auckland Tower).

Alex

[Kelburn]

I mean does he do ground, approach etc.
If I can't get a class 1 medical then I may lay back to ATC instead.

[towerguy]

you'll find that theres not that much difference between the class 1 and class 3 medicals

as to what i do ...

usually as little as possible! but thats just me.

in the tower here we have three positions
Aerodrome control - which is landings and takeoffs and everything airborne in the Auckland control zone.

Ground - which controls all aircraft and vehicle movements around the aerodrome surface, arranges starts and taxis' aircraft to and from the holding points - this position has become so involved that it can be the busiest and most complicated job of all of them.

Delivery - issues the route clearances, weather and notams and coordinates plans with the terminal radar planner in christchurch as required.

there is also a non-controller position called Flight Data that sits alongside Delivery to do the admin side of things like billing and strip preparation and generally support as required.


depending on your financial situation you could find that if you have what it takes that an ATC job is a good start to get you into the aviation industry so you end up on an airfield with a good start on the exams and a good income to then start flying on your off duty time. There are quite a number of ex-controllers out there in cockpits now. I know of one in particular that went this route and is now in dubai flogging round in B777's and several others are in B733 and B738's domestically here.

If you need more recruiting info at any stage just PM me and I'll find out what I can.
cheers

[Kelburn]

Is it easy to get a job as an ATC?

Also who is the epmloyed airline pilot here (as said in the poll)