What other cities in NZ deserve to have international flights?

[towerguy]

Generally better weather! note --- GENERALLY.
they already extended the runway to the east into the golf course. that was back when they were going to have Kiwi air operating transtasman out of there.
I did 3 and 1/2 years controlling there and it was all the talk at the time.

yes I remember the talk about the airport going out near Te Puke at one time but that was never going to be a go'er. when you go around the corner of the hills from Papamoa to Te Puke you often get the fog on the TePuke side while it's still gin clear at TG. I know as I spent a lot of early mornings driving out to the Te Puke golf course ( one of NZ's beautiful hidden gems!).

[Daniel]

Hey Guys

I wonder if the big new departures lounge that Tauranga is building has anything to do with possible international flights?
I think i remember hearing that when 737s get diverted to Tauranga they have to close the grass runway and it takes some very careful turning around.
I think Rotorua stands more chance of getting international flights as we already have all the screening and customs facilities and its just the runway needs to be lengthened.
Im all for Rotorua!

Cheers
Daniel

[greaneyr]

The point that gets me, 'experts opinions' aside regarding viability, is that OzJet obviously felt that the AU-PMR routes WERE viable. I don't think it's fair for people to look on now and go "PMR was never a viable airport and neither is anything apart from the 3 major centres and tourist traps, yadda yadda yadda". To OzJet, PMR WAS seen as viable. It also was to Freedom at one point. Maybe with the tourism promotion that accompanied the OzJet 'deal' the Freedom flights might have attracted more, who knows?

PN Airport, the PNCC and Vision Manawatu worked extremely hard to get to this point and have just had their efforts shattered. The entire region will be extremely upset over this.

[Anthony]

I still say that Rotorua is the only one that can sustain intl flights.
Or rather, it's the most likely to be able to sustain intl flights and also the most likely to get them, if someone was going to do it.

If I could, I would add a second poll and ask would you fly from the regional centres if intl flights were available?
I'm guessing though that there would be a slight bias towards yes, given who we are and what we're here for.

It's a pity that loadfactor info for PMR wasnt readily available, because I think that would give valuable insight into the feasibility and even profitability of PMR as an intl airport.

Discussion at hand though, I would like to see intl services into the regions.
It would work for some of these airports, especially ROT.
But I have doubts over profitability, sustainability and generally over whether anyone's actually going to do it.

If intl service from the regions is going to happen, I would bet money on DJ being behind it.

Specifically to greaneyr, respectfully, I fail to see why PMR is viable, justifiable and sustainable.
Especially in light of SJ and OzJet quitting.

Cheers
Anthony

[dask77]

QUOTE (brotonee @ Apr 2 2008, 03:51 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I still say that Rotorua is the only one that can sustain intl flights.
Or rather, it's the most likely to be able to sustain intl flights and also the most likely to get them, if someone was going to do it.

If I could, I would add a second poll and ask would you fly from the regional centres if intl flights were available?
I'm guessing though that there would be a slight bias towards yes, given who we are and what we're here for.

It's a pity that loadfactor info for PMR wasnt readily available, because I think that would give valuable insight into the feasibility and even profitability of PMR as an intl airport.

Discussion at hand though, I would like to see intl services into the regions.
It would work for some of these airports, especially ROT.
But I have doubts over profitability, sustainability and generally over whether anyone's actually going to do it.

If intl service from the regions is going to happen, I would bet money on DJ being behind it.

Specifically to greaneyr, respectfully, I fail to see why PMR is viable, justifiable and sustainable.
Especially in light of SJ and OzJet quitting.

Cheers
Anthony

palmy north is viable we get the pll for the hawke bay taupo and for the naki and ppl come up for wellington so how can u say it not viable air new zealand just didnt want to put the time and effort into it and as for ozjet there said it was viable but it our airline( air nauru) that said no and i would trust our airline as nauru is broke with no money it get it money from taiwan and casa australia has stop air nauru from fly twice with a year of each other beacuse of safty and bad maganment so there dont now what there are talking about

[Daniel]

QUOTE (dask77 @ Mar 28 2008, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

palmy north is viable we get the pll for the hawke bay taupo and for the naki and ppl come up for wellington so how can u say it not viable air new zealand just didnt want to put the time and effort into it and as for ozjet there said it was viable but it our airline( air nauru) that said no and i would trust our airline as nauru is broke with no money it get it money from taiwan and casa australia has stop air nauru from fly twice with a year of each other beacuse of safty and bad maganment so there dont now what there are talking about

Isn't it interesting that Air New Zealand are going to carry on flights from Hamilton and Dunedin and i think put more services out of the main airport.
I never trusted Ozjet in the first place and i think they have had financial trouble and their fleet is so aged!
Its a shame that Palmerston North has lost international flights but other airlines might come.

Rotorua should already have international flights as we are a very big tourist destination.
I think we could easily have great loads to Brisbane, The Gold Coast and Sydney. I think Pacific Blue stands the most chance of starting services.

Cheers
Daniel

[Anthony]

QUOTE (dask77 @ Mar 28 2008, 03:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

palmy north is viable we get the pll for the hawke bay taupo and for the naki and ppl come up for wellington so how can u say it not viable air new zealand just didnt want to put the time and effort into it and as for ozjet there said it was viable but it our airline( air nauru) that said no and i would trust our airline as nauru is broke with no money it get it money from taiwan and casa australia has stop air nauru from fly twice with a year of each other beacuse of safty and bad maganment so there dont now what there are talking about

Only reason I said it wasn't viable is because of the Freedom and OzJet thing and also because of my assumptions of PMR not being a tourist trap (it isn't really).

I'm not trying to put PMR down, I'm just saying that in light of Freedom quitting and OzJet being a no-go, PMR isn't likely to get intl services in the very near future.
The case for ROT and other airports is much stronger.

Then again there are arguments on both sides - something that stops me from fully supporting ROT as an intl airport is my doubts about who's going to fill the planes.
I can't recall seeing a single Aussie tourist in ages here in Rotorua, but I can recall tons from Asia and the UK.
On the other hand, a lot of people from here go on holidays to Aussie. For many, it's the first overseas holiday they take.

Also, Tasman services to DUD (Dunners) are working, so it could go either way.
Cheers
Anthony

[spongebob206]

QUOTE (Charl @ Mar 27 2008, 07:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, deserving or no, Whenuapai is the most likely

And Ohakea.

Still think Invercargil would be a good option.
Deep south, good airport, has potential.

[Daniel]

QUOTE (spongebob206 @ Mar 28 2008, 04:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And Ohakea.

Still think Invercargil would be a good option.
Deep south, good airport, has potential.

I agree, however how close is it to Dunedin?

Cheers
Daniel

[greaneyr]

Sorry Anthony but I have to disagree.

PMR is the closest airport there is to the Central Plateau and Skifields. That's certainly a big drawcard for QN and I'm sure a lot of Aussies hop on a plane there for a weekend just to go skiing. Sure, there's so much more to see and do down there as well, but remember the flights are only from AU and not from Asia so your market has to be Australians first and foremost. The problem with Freedom was that they obviously didn't wake up to that fact. I guess if ANZ were feeding them "PMR isn't viable" news then they wouldn't be looking for much good in the region to counter argue with anyway.

I personally think RO could go either way. On one hand I'd like to see it better served to tourists, but on the other hand it kind of is. After all, you guys get B733 flights from ANZ and QNZ which is a damn sight more than most other provinces do. Fly intl into QN then you can catch another decent jet to RO. Where else can you say that?

As for Ozjet thinking PM isn't viable, that's not the case. They are being bought out by someone else who will have their hands full dealing with the merger for some time and can't afford the distraction of starting a new sector (and intl one at that). I'd say the 11th hour withdrawal has very little to do with them not thinking PM is viable.

Richard

[dask77]

QUOTE (greaneyr @ Apr 2 2008, 05:40 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Anthony but I have to disagree.

PMR is the closest airport there is to the Central Plateau and Skifields. That's certainly a big drawcard for QN and I'm sure a lot of Aussies hop on a plane there for a weekend just to go skiing. Sure, there's so much more to see and do down there as well, but remember the flights are only from AU and not from Asia so your market has to be Australians first and foremost. The problem with Freedom was that they obviously didn't wake up to that fact. I guess if ANZ were feeding them "PMR isn't viable" news then they wouldn't be looking for much good in the region to counter argue with anyway.

I personally think RO could go either way. On one hand I'd like to see it better served to tourists, but on the other hand it kind of is. After all, you guys get B733 flights from ANZ and QNZ which is a damn sight more than most other provinces do. Fly intl into QN then you can catch another decent jet to RO. Where else can you say that?

As for Ozjet thinking PM isn't viable, that's not the case. They are being bought out by someone else who will have their hands full dealing with the merger for some time and can't afford the distraction of starting a new sector (and intl one at that). I'd say the 11th hour withdrawal has very little to do with them not thinking PM is viable.

Richard

well richard u are dead right in what u say and my flatmate 100% agrees with u RO and QN get 737-300 and what dose PMR get ATR, DASH 8-300 and BEECH 1900ds there are not 737s

[dask77]

QUOTE (dask77 @ Apr 2 2008, 06:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well richard u are dead right in what u say and my flatmate 100% agrees with u RO and QN get 737-300 and what dose PMR get ATR, DASH 8-300 and BEECH 1900ds there are not 737s

well it has just been on the new that there are fighting ozjet and talking to other airlines as we speaking so do u still think PMR is not viable

[Daniel]

QUOTE (dask77 @ Mar 28 2008, 06:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well it has just been on the new that there are fighting ozjet and talking to other airlines as we speaking so do u still think PMR is not viable

It doesnt look good now that two airlines have left Palmerston North. As it said on the news it may turn away future airlines.
We are lucky in Rotorua because we have 737s however Air New Zealand Only operate from September to April and both Air New Zealand and Qantas only come in once a day.
I have seen on the Palmerston North airport website pictures of many aircraft (generally diverted from other airports) even a 767!
Rotorua has never had a 767. NZFF guys that live in PMR are still lucky with all the aircraft you get. Palmerston North has way more flights the ROT but i don't care.

Cheers
Daniel

[Alex]

Most of us want to see international flights come into our local airports. I know for certain I'd like to see some A320's or the like flying into Rotorua from the Eastern seaboard of Australia.

And just a couple of clarifications/extra points on top of my previous post. Construction is proposed to start this October, it has Environment Court approval (and Resource Consent I assume), the cost is estimated to be around $24 million, so that is the next hurdle. I'm not sure whether this is a runway-only figure, or includes some terminal works as well (although the airport is already capable of international arrivals and departures).

Rotorua's Case:

• A prominent tourist attraction, featuring on almost all tourists itinerary
• Capacity, being a tourist attraction, Rotorua has 12'000 motel/hotel beds, and conferencing facilities can accomodate 3000+ people*
• Close to Taupo (~1hr drive) and the Central Plateau (~1.5hr drive), as well as Tauranga and the Bay of Plenty
• An airport capable of international flights, and already supporting regular jet services
• If Rotorua Airport were international, it would have a catchment of around 450'000 people, including the cities of Tauranga, Whakatane, and Taupo (and of course Rotorua)*

*Indicates quotes from a morning Business news article screened last year (TV).

These are just a few things off the top of my head; so, although others obviously have compelling cases for international access, Rotorua is not without it's merits.

Alex

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (Daniel @ Mar 28 2008, 06:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It doesnt look good now that two airlines have left Palmerston North. As it said on the news it may turn away future airlines.

I hope that's not the view shared by prospective carriers because they're kidding themselves if so. OzJet didn't actually 'leave' Palmerston North. They got bought out by another company who weren't interested in going after that particular market. That on it's own doesn't actually say a thing about the viability of PM as a destination.

As an example, the company I work for look after computer networks in schools around NZ. Although the majority were in the north, we did have a number of customers in the south island. Last year, our company was bought by an Auckland-based company who were very keen to see us focus on the area close to us and saw it as too big of an undertaking to extend our reach to the south Island. We had one staff member based there who is now working for another company. We had quite convincingly proved that we were able to generate income from customers in both islands, but our new buyers didn't see the south island as being their target 'market' as that time and place.

Now, this means NOTHING about the financial viability of operating with south island customers. We still know that there is a real shortage of education-specialist vendors down there, and that we could make a very viable business from working there, but our head office aren't interested in it at this stage. It's just like that with Air Nauru.

So it's not that OzJet withdrew from Palmy at all. Ozjet are going to be bought by a company who aren't interested in that market at this stage. There's a BIG difference.

[Anthony]

QUOTE (greaneyr @ Mar 28 2008, 05:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry Anthony but I have to disagree.

PMR is the closest airport there is to the Central Plateau and Skifields. That's certainly a big drawcard for QN and I'm sure a lot of Aussies hop on a plane there for a weekend just to go skiing. Sure, there's so much more to see and do down there as well, but remember the flights are only from AU and not from Asia so your market has to be Australians first and foremost. The problem with Freedom was that they obviously didn't wake up to that fact. I guess if ANZ were feeding them "PMR isn't viable" news then they wouldn't be looking for much good in the region to counter argue with anyway.

I personally think RO could go either way. On one hand I'd like to see it better served to tourists, but on the other hand it kind of is. After all, you guys get B733 flights from ANZ and QNZ which is a damn sight more than most other provinces do. Fly intl into QN then you can catch another decent jet to RO. Where else can you say that?

As for Ozjet thinking PM isn't viable, that's not the case. They are being bought out by someone else who will have their hands full dealing with the merger for some time and can't afford the distraction of starting a new sector (and intl one at that). I'd say the 11th hour withdrawal has very little to do with them not thinking PM is viable.

Richard

Actually having read this, I agree with you to a certain extent.
That (the skiing etc) is a benefit for PMR and I'm sure it would help with the Aussie thing (or rather my doubts about Aus-PMR services).

Secondly, I may not have understood what you were saying, but there are no services between ZQN and ROT (you would have to go ZQN-CHC-ROT or ZQN-WLG-ROT or ZQN-AKL-ROT, etc) let alone a jet service.

Anyway, unfortunately I think OzJet's withdrawal (which like you say, isn't really a withdrawal) and Freedom's withdrawal will be detrimental to PMR.
I think it is likely that PMR will lose intl status and will probably lose security staff and facilities.
This combined with the airline withdrawals will I think put other airlines off of operating to PMR for a while.

Agree with Alex as well by the way.

Also with respect to you Dask77, but did it occur to you that perhaps ROT has domestic jet service because it is viable and PMR doesn't because it's not viable? Rotorua's jet service is a bit of a 'token gesture' in a lot of ways - look at what Daniel said.
Plus Freedom operated to/from PMR - so you would have had 737s or A320s in the past surely.

Speaking of Freedom, today (28th March) is the day Zeal320/Air NZ is officially killing the brand I think.

Cheers
Anthony

[spongebob206]

Hi All,

Personally I feel sorry for the management etc from PM as they have done a brilliant job. They have turned the airport into an international. Millions has been spent for ANZ to pull the plug and then the decsion by the new owners of OZ jet.

Palmy is still a good option as an international. Good weather, location.

When is the airport shut. My only problem is the length of the runway. If that could be lengthened, we will have a winner.

This will be costly with a possible tunnel under the runway as the road, but hey anything is possible!

Cheers

Derek

[Daniel]

Hi Guys

At this stage it looks as if Rotorua Airport is the most popular choice for international flights

Cheers
Daniel

[Daniel]

Hey Guys

For the people that chose "other" it would be great if you could explain what airport you think deserves international flights.
It would be interesting to see what other airports people would like to see. I just chose a general list of cities that are more likely to get international flights.

Cheers
Daniel