Hamilton International Airport Upgrades

[benwynn]

QUOTE

Airport planning to spread its wings

Hamilton International Airport wants to add Asian and possibly American destinations to its schedule as part of an ambitious long-term goal to become the North Island's second-biggest airport.

Chief executive Chris Doak revealed the vision to Hamilton City Council's finance and audit committee yesterday as part of a briefing on the company's performance and plans for the future. The council is the majority shareholder of the company, Waikato Regional Airport Ltd.

With the airport's $15 million terminal upgrade completed, it was now time to look at growing the business, Mr Doak said. Key to that was making a strong case to extend the runway from 2200m to close to 2700m, which would allow larger wide-body jets such as 767s and 777s to use Hamilton.[/quote]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4455373a11.html

New Zealand is currently served by two pretty big international airports, AKL and CHC, not to mention that HLZ and other airports currently have intl service from Aus and the numerous other airports vying to get intl service (see this thread).
I'm not sure who would be keen to serve NZ using an airport that isn't AKL or CHC.
Many airlines already serve AKL, but not CHC as they feel they don't need to serve two NZ airports, let alone three.

In the NZ Aviation Thread at A.Net somebody suggested HLZ as a diversion airport, but that's obviously not what the HLZ Airport Company has in mind, and CatIIIb kind of makes it redundant.
Somebody else suggested that Air Asia X could use it, as apparently they couldn't use AKL because Malaysia has a restriction on Air Asia X.

I would hate to see money invested into something that won't work, and I have doubts about HLZ being successful as a major intl airport, but I guess it could work, especially for LCCs.

Cheers
Anthony

[Alex]

Well, you know the phrase; "Build it, and they will come"...

Alex

[Anthony]

QUOTE (Alex @ Mar 29 2008, 09:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, you know the phrase; "Build it, and they will come"...

Alex

That saying reminds me of IVC a bit actually.
Built it up for intl and then it didn't really happen.

Will be interesting to see what happens with HLZ and of course the other airports in NZ - aviation scene getting/going to be quite hot in the future I think.

Anthony

[greaneyr]

Hamilton to Auckland airport is what, 1 hour 20 minutes on a very nice expressway. Can someone tell me why this is needed? Auckland is a huge airport that already flies beyond Trans-Tasman.

At the opposite end of the island, you've got a much bigger city, that also happens to be our nations capital, that doesn't fly beyond Australia, that is accessed from the rest of the neighbouring areas by a road that can only be described as revolting at best. I'm just not sure there is any justification for Hamilton becoming the North Island's second biggest airport while Wellington/Palmy flounder as sub-standard runways with a greatly limited range of destinations. I'd actually almost see Hamilton as Auckland's second runway if they did this.

The answer is Ohakea, I tell you! 2.4 km of runway, easily extended if need be. Plus, the "B" runway is not much shorter than Hamilton at a pure 2133m (no displaced threshold).


As an aside, I really wish the provinces in NZ would get over this 'backtrack' mentality and stop just extending the runways out more and more without any other change. Unless they build some taxiways, they are greatly limiting their potential for growth. Longer runways just mean longer backtracks and more time when the runway cannot be used. I've been at Palmy when Wellington is closed due to fog and seen some 10 aircraft on the apron. Sequencing really becomes a nightmare, but at least we've got a holding bay most of the way down the runway. I'd hate to think how Hamilton would handle this situation.

[Daniel]

I think Hamilton Airport need to realise its not a competition to be the North Islands second biggest airport.
Hamilton only have one airline. They should focus on domestic operations rather than international.
Auckland is only a quick drive north. Wellington would get bigger planes before Hamilton.
Air Asia X may fly there in the future but i dont think in the next few years.
I think this is unrealistic and crazy.

Cheers
Daniel

[twinstarda42]

QUOTE (Daniel @ Mar 30 2008, 08:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Hamilton Airport need to realise its not a competition to be the North Islands second biggest airport.
Hamilton only have one airline. They should focus on domestic operations rather than international.
Auckland is only a quick drive north. Wellington would get bigger planes before Hamilton.
Air Asia X may fly there in the future but i dont think in the next few years.
I think this is unrealistic and crazy.

Cheers
Daniel

The focus is not on being the second biggest airport in NZ , airports are commercial businesses they are trying to create new business and grow the company-pretty obvious everyone in their locals areas want their airport to be the biggest and best by some of the comments muted - reality is they are companies - companies need to create bussiness opportunties to grow , their is also a very large industrial area muted to be built north of the airport boundary on airport land, the main rail overseas freight terminal for NZ is also located at te rapa(hamilton north) in regards to future freight opportunties. if it was all about being the biggest and best the company would of fell over a long time ago, that said the air traffic in the area is already saturated with training traffic from CTC and WAC with more anticipated, ardmore based aircraft have reported having to hold outside the Hamilton TMA for upwards of 30 mins due traffic with a minimum upwards of 9 aircraft beating around the circuit with more flying in and around the TMA during peak periods,that is why you have been getting C-130s doing touch and go's out of rotorua and tauranga, as they use to use Hamilton-now they only track around overhead Hamilton using the IFR Tracks for about half and hour(as Hamilton is the only airport apart from AKL/WLG/CHCH + Military that has full IFR capabiltity) then head off to Rotorua/Tauranga fro t and G

[benwynn]

Dan, as somebody said above, Air Asia X have restrictions on where they can fly due to Malaysian- So that sorta counts out Hamilton, then again its always possible?

Personally, I think Hamilton is just a little bit too close to Auckland. I think more expansion would be better used in places such as Palmerston North, or Rotorua. I think those 2 locations would have great potential for expansion for more than Aussie flights.

[benwynn]

QUOTE (twinstarda42 @ Mar 30 2008, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The focus is not on being the second biggest airport in NZ

No it's not, it's about becoming the second biggest airport in the north island. The press says so.

QUOTE

(as Hamilton is the only airport apart from AKL/WLG/CHCH + Military that has full IFR capabiltity)[/quote]
Not sure what you mean here. Hamilton has no ILS whereas Dunedin does.


The thing I just thought of is that maybe Hamilton Airport are getting a little scared that they might become victims of the same kind of fate as Palmy are going through, except losing services to Auckland rather than Wellington. They're more at risk in some regards due to their closer distance, but not in others because of their higher immediate population.

If you were referring to me as one of the people who wants their local airport to be the biggest then bear in mind my local airport is Palmy and I've stated many times I'd like it to close and move all traffic to Ohakea. The justification for use of Ohakea is that it overcomes many of the problems Wellington cannot, due to it's location. If there were a better airport closer to Wellington with more expansion potential, I'd be suggesting it. The only other option is Paraparaumu but terrain and built-up areas are the two biggest show stoppers there. It just happens that Ohakea is this airport and also happens to be relatively close to me.

Last edited by greaneyr on Sun Mar 30, 2008 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

[Anthony]

QUOTE (twinstarda42 @ Mar 30 2008, 09:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The focus is not on being the second biggest airport in NZ , airports are commercial businesses they are trying to create new business and grow the company-pretty obvious everyone in their locals areas want their airport to be the biggest and best by some of the comments muted - reality is they are companies - companies need to create bussiness opportunties to grow , their is also a very large industrial area muted to be built north of the airport boundary on airport land, the main rail overseas freight terminal for NZ is also located at te rapa(hamilton north) in regards to future freight opportunties. if it was all about being the biggest and best the company would of fell over a long time ago, that said the air traffic in the area is already saturated with training traffic from CTC and WAC with more anticipated, ardmore based aircraft have reported having to hold outside the Hamilton TMA for upwards of 30 mins due traffic with a minimum upwards of 9 aircraft ibeating around the circuit with more flying in and around the TMA that is why you have been getting C-130s doing touch and go's out of rotorua and tauranga, as they use to use Hamilton-now they only track around overhead Hamilton using the IFR Tracks for about half and hour(as Hamilton is the only airport apart from AKL/WLG/CHCH + Military that has full IFR capabiltity) then head off to Rotorua/Tauranga fro t and G

Regardless, what is the point of expanding Hamilton for international flights that I doubt will come?

Yes, AKL can be a witch (especially when I was last there and a 747 full of Asians and several 777s had all arrived, customs and immigration and security was swamped, plus you could barely walk or breathe), and it might lack decent infrastructure to the city, but it is still a serviceable airport in a country that doesn't truly need more than two and definitely doesn't need more than three.

As Daniel says, there's another airport sitting in the nation's capital, much further away from AKL than HLZ is, that would like to expand and as far as I see, has more potential.
Again, there's a much bigger airport sitting one hour north that already has this.

HLZ does not need to expand for Asian and American flights, nor should it.
AKL and CHC are okay as it is, and WLG would have a better, more convincing business plan (even if the road to it is a bit rubbish).
Ohakea is an idea, but it's Whenuapai the airforce is planning to let go I thought, not Ohakea.

Actually, I thought I remembered Ohakea being quite a bit out from Palmy and Wellington, but I don't live there (I do go there a bit though) so obviously I could be wrong.

QUOTE (benwynn @ Mar 30 2008, 10:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Dan, as somebody said above, Air Asia X have restrictions on where they can fly due to Malaysian- So that sorta counts out Hamilton, then again its always possible?

Personally, I think Hamilton is just a little bit too close to Auckland. I think more expansion would be better used in places such as Palmerston North, or Rotorua. I think those 2 locations would have great potential for expansion for more than Aussie flights.

Absolutely. ROT being tourist trap, and PMR being conveniently close to skifields in the central plateau.
Malaysian don't fly to HLZ though, so Air Asia X would be able to fly there (I don't see why, WLG or CHC if MH don't fly there would be more appropriate).

Cheers
Anthony

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (brotonee @ Mar 30 2008, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ohakea is an idea, but it's Whenuapai the airforce is planning to let go I thought, not Ohakea.

I'm just thinking along the lines of Woodbourne. Joint civil/mil.

[Anthony]

QUOTE (greaneyr @ Mar 30 2008, 10:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm just thinking along the lines of Woodbourne. Joint civil/mil.

Oh yer I see what you're saying now.
That could work.
It would be better than HLZ in my mind.

Cheers
Anthony

[twinstarda42]

QUOTE (greaneyr @ Mar 30 2008, 10:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No it's not, it's about becoming the second biggest airport in the north island. The press says so.


Not sure what you mean here. Hamilton has no ILS whereas Dunedin does.


The thing I just thought of is that maybe Hamilton Airport are getting a little scared that they might become victims of the same kind of fate as Palmy are going through, except losing services to Auckland rather than Wellington. They're more at risk in some regards due to their closer distance, but not in others because of their higher immediate population.

If you were referring to me as one of the people who wants their local airport to be the biggest then bear in mind my local airport is Palmy and I've stated many times I'd like it to close and move all traffic to Ohakea. The justification for use of Ohakea is that it overcomes many of the problems Wellington cannot, due to it's location. If there were a better airport closer to Wellington with more expansion potential, I'd be suggesting it. The only other option is Paraparaumu but terrain and built-up areas are the two biggest show stoppers there. It just happens that Ohakea is this airport and also happens to be relatively close to me.

Re: ILS apart from that it has full capabilty I think the hardware is their just ain't been turned on quote from google groupsnz general : With Hamilton's plans to
implement an ILS Cat III B system, fog will not hamper large
international flights as much as it currently does., they only managed to keep air nz internationals by doing a deal in regards to landing charges, doesn't palmy also have an air freight distribution centre as such?

[Kelburn]

Hamilton won't really succeed.

Auckland - 11,458,553 Passengers 2006
Christchurch - 5,455,310 Passengers 2006
Wellington - 4,602,000 Passengers 2006
Dunedin - 698,658 Passengers 2006
Queenstown - 628,000 Passengers 2006
Hamilton - 433,598 Passengers (2006? - not specified)

As you can see Hamilton is at the bottom of the list.
With the 787 arrive soon, I think that Wellington will be the most likely to get extended international services as the 787 will be able to take off fully loaded from Wellington airport (apparently) and it is almost the same with the 777 (Air NZ has even considered this) and for Wellington there is the option for expensive extension via reclaimed land into Cook Strait or Evans Bay

[greaneyr]

Yeah I agree that Wellington is the most likely with the 787 just around the corner (well that is, assuming it doesn't have a similar run to the A380). The only problem I can see with Wellington even for this type of service is the 12:30 curfew. On long haul flights across multiple time zones, late arrivals become a bigger reality. I guess what fate will decide is whether the future will see a trend in favour of urban growth in Wellington (and see the noise restrictions increase and hamper growth) or airport growth (and see the curfew relax up to the improved noise levels of the new generation of airliners).

[twinstarda42]

QUOTE (Kelburn @ Mar 30 2008, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hamilton won't really succeed.

Auckland - 11,458,553 Passengers 2006
Christchurch - 5,455,310 Passengers 2006
Wellington - 4,602,000 Passengers 2006
Dunedin - 698,658 Passengers 2006
Queenstown - 628,000 Passengers 2006
Hamilton - 433,598 Passengers (2006? - not specified)

As you can see Hamilton is at the bottom of the list.
With the 787 arrive soon, I think that Wellington will be the most likely to get extended international services as the 787 will be able to take off fully loaded from Wellington airport (apparently) and it is almost the same with the 777 (Air NZ has even considered this) and for Wellington there is the option for expensive extension via reclaimed land into Cook Strait or Evans Bay

they ALREADY HAVE or they would not being doing or planning to expand i.e goals must of been achived in regards to the business plan, passenger numbers only factor into part of the equation, Plt Training, production, freight, lease agreements with tenant businesses etc to name a few also factor.

[benwynn]

I would really like to see the expansion of Christchurch and Wellington myself. Airlines are going away from these airports instead of going into. 787's Into WLG/CHC, 777s into Auckland sounds like a good International Plan to me.

Anthony,

You are absolutley correct. I just think driving 1 hour from AKL/HLZ is just too close. PMR and ROT seem like perfect locations, right in the middle. Great for Tourists!

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (benwynn @ Mar 30 2008, 12:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would really like to see the expansion of Christchurch and Wellington myself. Airlines are going away from these airports instead of going into.

Is that right? I always thought Chch was a growing airport? Though I haven't been there for a few years, every time I was down there a few years ago things seemed to have increased from the previous time, more sectors added etc. It'd be a shame if they are losing flights to Auckland.

[benwynn]

Sure, with the intorduction of Airlines like Pac Blue it has possibly slowly grown. But, they are definently losing flights to Auckland. I remember my family flew twice from BNE-CHC on the 767 when I was about 7. This service, gone. Qantas dont fly a service from BNE anymore. What about Wellington. Ok- Freedom is defunct now, but what about 5-8 years ago. Tonnes of services into both Wellington and Christchurch using the 737.

And now, nearly all of Ditch flights are using an A320. IMO, I think there is capacity to start sending 767's into Wellington Again, and 100% 767's into Christchurch.

Going away from the Australian Flights, I suppose CHC isnt going to badly with SQ, KE and EK flights. Though, EK did drop the CHC-MEL service.

[victor_alpha_charlie]

QUOTE (Kelburn @ Mar 30 2008, 10:56 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hamilton won't really succeed.

Auckland - 11,458,553 Passengers 2006
Christchurch - 5,455,310 Passengers 2006
Wellington - 4,602,000 Passengers 2006
Dunedin - 698,658 Passengers 2006
Queenstown - 628,000 Passengers 2006
Hamilton - 433,598 Passengers (2006? - not specified)

As you can see Hamilton is at the bottom of the list.
With the 787 arrive soon, I think that Wellington will be the most likely to get extended international services as the 787 will be able to take off fully loaded from Wellington airport (apparently) and it is almost the same with the 777 (Air NZ has even considered this) and for Wellington there is the option for expensive extension via reclaimed land into Cook Strait or Evans Bay

The only problem being that for every metre WLG's runway is extended to the south, it will cost about $500,000.

I can't see HLZ/ROT/ anywhere else having enough demeand for Asian/US flights.

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (benwynn @ Mar 30 2008, 05:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure, with the intorduction of Airlines like Pac Blue it has possibly slowly grown. But, they are definently losing flights to Auckland. I remember my family flew twice from BNE-CHC on the 767 when I was about 7. This service, gone. Qantas dont fly a service from BNE anymore. What about Wellington. Ok- Freedom is defunct now, but what about 5-8 years ago. Tonnes of services into both Wellington and Christchurch using the 737.

And now, nearly all of Ditch flights are using an A320. IMO, I think there is capacity to start sending 767's into Wellington Again, and 100% 767's into Christchurch.

Going away from the Australian Flights, I suppose CHC isnt going to badly with SQ, KE and EK flights. Though, EK did drop the CHC-MEL service.

You raise some really interesting points here. I had just thought that airlines believed the days of requiring widebodies to service TT routes are long over. Maybe this is only because WN and CH are the two airports I've had the most interest in. I know QFA operate one 767 service out of CH but I think it's a freight run from memory. I've heard a few suggestions that the reason WN lost it's 767 services was because they didn't have the infrastructure to attend to a major accident if it occured. I'm really not sure how much material there is behind this suggestion. After all, QFA used to operate the 747SP's back in the day and if anything, the support infrastructure in the surrounding city would have been less.

I'm not sure how many daily TT seats there are out of Wellington compared to the early days of the B733s compared to using all 767s. I actually thought the sectors were largely the same today as they were back then. A typical ANZ day between WN and SY went something like: ANZ141 out, 142 back, 143 out and 144 returning at midnight. Nowadays it's still the same number of flights, except the numbers just start with a different digit.

Talking from an entirely emotionally driven point of view, I always liked the idea that you get to fly on a 'real' airliner once you go international. To fly TT on an A320 is a bit of a letdown and I'd love to see 767s servicing these routes again. A320s are 'domestic' machines in my view and 733s were definitely so. Next thing they'll be sending AT72s and Q300s over there!