Air NZ plane lands on one engine

[Anthony]

Thanks for the info guys.
Air National flights should be operated under the Air National name in my opinion.

[A185F]

I dont think the whole "critical engine" yada yada comes into playe here much. IF infact it did have one it would make bugger all to barely noticible difference in that machine..

[Q300]

QUOTE (Anthony @ Jul 31 2008, 04:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the info guys.
Air National flights should be operated under the Air National name in my opinion.

The reason its under the Eagle name is because its operating for eagle airways, 3 New's said on nightline "The aircraft was an Air National Jetstream operating an Eagle air flight" So its not like there painting Eagle out to be 'bad guys'. If it was just an Air National charter flight it would have been under the AN callsign...

[Daniel]

Removed

[HardCorePawn]

QUOTE (A185F @ Jul 31 2008, 05:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont think the whole "critical engine" yada yada comes into playe here much. IF infact it did have one it would make bugger all to barely noticible difference in that machine..

Can you explain why? Not because I disagree... but because I'm about to start my Air Tech and PoF study and this stuff is starting to become very relevant

[TimG]

Is it because they have high speed and momentum, but low drag? (I'm probably way off the track and making a fool of myself).

[towerguy]

aircraft was indeed a JS32 of Air nationals
and operated as 'National 088'

crew did a good job and landed safely despite being assymetric and having a last minute runway change because of appalling weather and a sudden wind swing

[Daniel]

Removed

[Anthony]

QUOTE (towerguy @ Aug 2 2008, 12:14 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

aircraft was indeed a JS32 of Air nationals
and operated as 'National 088'

crew did a good job and landed safely despite being assymetric and having a last minute runway change because of appalling weather and a sudden wind swing

Good on them

QUOTE (Daniel @ Aug 2 2008, 07:41 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm pretty sure it was ZK ECP. I think I read it on an airliners.net forum.

Yip it was JS32 ZK-ECP. Here's a link to the forum in question, it's reply 86.
Operating KAT-AKL with 14 pax.

[Njbb1995]

Oh freaky the jetstreams havent got a good rep have they?

[A185F]

QUOTE (HardCorePawn @ Aug 1 2008, 10:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Can you explain why? Not because I disagree... but because I'm about to start my Air Tech and PoF study and this stuff is starting to become very relevant

Well theres nothing technical about it other than the fact that they just have such a good power to weight ratio and performance on one engine and a dam good rudder. Because actual performance numbers (if you infact are looking) on the day will vary due numbers of punters, weather (press ant temp etc) you should find that if either engin shut down the performance on the other one is so great and that the difference in weather the engine was the critical one or not is too small to worry about. As well as performance the whole chritical engine bizo is also about directional control (and beign harder to fly in some turns etc) well with these having such good power on one engine coupled with such an effective rudder makes this pretty much a non event.
In saying all this I have not actually flown the sodastream but have some mates who do and have been told what they are like on one engine compaired to the one I (now used to) fly. That being a similar sort of aircraft (19 seat reg turboprob) but a bit lighter (and similar engines but a bit less power) I do know what this is like on one engine (and it does have a "critical" one but dont ask me which one it is, (too early in the morning)) and the performance is pretty good. Infact, on one engine it performs better than most light piston twins on 2 which is where the whole critical thing is a bit more important. Once the engine is shut down and it is all trimed up, it really doesnt seem like it is only running on one (the climb performance is obviously less). It doesnt matter what one it is, it still goes bloody well. FAR better than any light twins I have flown. With the sodastream having a bit more grunt to weight I think it would be even better (as have been told).

But after all that I have a sneaking suspition that the soda stream has counta rotaing props, not sure for definate though, will have to have a look. And I think "critical" might just be a bit too heavier a word

[SA227]

The J32 has it's good points. A good ergonomic cockpit with good systems redundancy. Torque and temp protection on the TPE331. I'm not sure if I would take the water methanol of a metro or the automatic power reserve of a J32, I guess at the end of the day I could at least over torque with water meths to save my butt.
Like any medium weight turboprop the J32 requires precision flying asymmetric to get any performance out of it, at V2 you have to work very hard to keep it straight.
The certification requirements for commuter aircraft i.e Metro, J32 and 1900 are a climb gradient of at least 2% to 400ft and 1.2% after that, which equates to sweet FA when you really need it.
Having had an engine failure in a J32 some years back I can confirm the crew would have been working hard and good on them for safely completing the mission.
As for declaring an emergency, if you aren't going to declare one following the lose of 50% of your available power then when are you going to declare one?

[HardCorePawn]

Thanks for the info guys... always more interested in "real world" background, than "mainstream media guesswork"

[GlennAV8R]

QUOTE (Daniel @ Jul 31 2008, 08:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is actually a name for the step below a full emergency, pan pan pan.
As always the media has to blow it way out of proportion.

Just to correct the previous comments in this thread regarding levels of emergency and distress calls. There are 4 distinct levels of emergency, those are Local Standby, Full Emergency, Land Crash and Sea Crash (Aircraft Accident Phase). A Local Standby will bring Airport Fire Services to standby, and notify (but not necessarily respond) outside agencies, ie Fire, Police and Ambulance. A Full Emergency will bring a response from other agencies, and the size of the response is determinded by the aircraft category, light, military or heavy. In the event of more minor incidents, often just the AFS is aware and will carry out a station standby. None of this should be confused with the urgency call Pan Pan which is mentioned above, which is defined as a condition concerning the safety of an aircraft, or some person on board or within sight, but which does not require immediate assistance. Either a pilot or Air Traffic Services can declare an emergency phase as desribed above. The pilot is responsible for declaring an emergency, however if adequate communication does not exist ATS will assess the situation and nominate the desired state of emergency.

[Daniel]

Removed

[Toz]

some birds do fine on one engine ( 767-300 for egg sample ).....they can even climbout no probs on one engine.
i dont know if a JS32 can do this ??? I know single engine circuits are standard training for ANZ pilots in all domestic jets ( cant say about 747s but believe simialar ) . dont know the training regime for Jetstream. I would be looking for a parachute tho.....

[benwynn]

QUOTE

some birds do fine on one engine ( 767-300 for egg sample ).....they can even climbout no probs on one engine.
i dont know if a JS32 can do this ??? I know single engine circuits are standard training for ANZ pilots in all domestic jets ( cant say about 747s but believe simialar ) . dont know the training regime for Jetstream. I would be looking for a parachute tho.....[/quote]

All/Most planes are designed to fly on 1 engine in the case of a twin. So sure, its no real emergency it can fly around, but the reason the Emergency call was made, was incase of the 2nd Engine failure.

[bestpilotindaworld]

QUOTE (benwynn @ Aug 3 2008, 07:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

All/Most planes are designed to fly on 1 engine in the case of a twin. So sure, its no real emergency it can fly around, but the reason the Emergency call was made, was incase of the 2nd Engine failure.

If I had a engine fail in a twin of any sort I would want AFS there in case. More so in a turbo prop case I can't stop.

I know of a twin when you lose a engine your on a one way track and it ain't up.

[Squawk1200]

QUOTE (bestpilotindaworld @ Aug 4 2008, 01:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know of a twin when you lose a engine your on a one way track and it ain't up.

Mwahaha, the mighty GA-7 Cougar springs to mind if you lose an engine in that thing, the other will just get you to the crash site faster.....

[stubbie]

QUOTE (Squawk1200 @ Aug 4 2008, 07:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mwahaha, the mighty GA-7 Cougar springs to mind if you lose an engine in that thing, the other will just get you to the crash site faster.....

try a dominie with a full load and one fan