More Thoughts on the RNZAF CT4

[Charl]

When I started this thread I realised it might derail into a your flightsim vs my flightsim diatribe.

It really wasn’t the point.

(If you don’t like reading long rants, just go to the last paragraph now.)



There are two discussions here, and mixing them up turns it into an argument.

What is and

What might be



What is, is quite simply there are a whole lot of people choosing to use and develop FS9, even after all this time.

But don’t take my word for it, check out the front page of AVSIM today:

Flight Simulator X - Original Aircraft

FedEx Express McDonnell Douglas MD-11(F) – 1032 downloads
KLM McDonnell Douglas MD-11(P) – 684 downloads

And a few lines down:

Flight Simulator 2004 - Original Aircraft
FedEx Express McDonnell Douglas MD-11(F) – 802 downloads
KLM McDonnell Douglas MD-11(P) – 527 downloads

(Not to mention the cool FS9 Tupolev TU-144 V2.0)

Seeing a new FSX aircraft is a rarity, but sure enough, there’s its FS9 counterpart to cater for the other half of the market.

My earlier point was that it should not be too much trouble to port to both sims, and PAD clearly agree.
They like to see their wares enjoyed by as wide an audience as possible.

You cannot wish or argue this away, it is a simple matter of fact: the audience exists.



Whether you think it should exist, is when temperatures rise.

FSX has a market too, for those seeking New! and Improved! Or perhaps just tired of the FS9 experience.
Many first-time simmers would probably go FSX too, why would they want an old sim? So sure the payware sector can’t ignore this market.

But it is developer-led, and wishes to wean the luddites from their antiquated game, into the New! Improved! Version.



A lot of this is wishful thinking, and is why a lot of the commentary about FS9 resorts to thinly-veiled insult about being “left behindâ€￾.
This sure as hell isn’t going to wean the FS9 community from their habit.



I own both sims.

Each has strong points.

In no way is FSX a successor to FS9 on my rig.

It does some stuff differently, sure, and some stuff very well.

It also doesn’t do some stuff as well as my FS9 setup.

Let me rephrase that: can’t, and probably won’t.
Why? Because before computers mature enough to run FSX to suit my needs, there will be FSXI.

You don’t agree? Look at the FS track record, my FS9 ran to its design state for the very first time, after I bought what I thought was an FSX-spec machine.

Any time I doubt this, I dig out Aerosoft’s brilliant Budapest scenery, and drool over it in FS9, with all its airlines and buzz.

Then I load up the same scenery for FSX, and just shake my head, and feel sorry for those committed solely to this sim, who just will never see it the way it was meant to be.



Ooh I have ranted.

Still reading?



Let me summarise:

FS9 exists, and you can’t wish it away.

I don’t know for how long (did I mention Rob Barendregt is tinkering with a brilliant new A-A refuelling gauge – for FS9?)

But you also don’t know for how long.

Ignore FS9 right now, and you have a lesser audience.

No further discussion required, go make your own thread and slug it out there...

[toprob]

QUOTE (Charl @ Aug 25 2008, 03:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When I started this thread I realised it might derail into a your flightsim vs my flightsim diatribe

Hey, I'd forgotten that you started this thread!

I admit that 'I have a full-featured, fleshed-out and totally satisfying FS2004 experience' makes a lot more sense to me than the whiny 'my mum won't buy me a super-computer to run FSX'...

I also admit that the freeware community has not made the jump to FSX -- the Avsim 'hot downloads' are ample proof -- but developing for FSX needs different/more skills, which take time to develop. So I'm not too sure that developing for FS2004 is a better choice, or a simpler choice.

And my assertion still stands -- excluding Charl, the majority of those who download the freeware from Avsim/Flightsim, do so because it IS free.

[victor_alpha_charlie]

QUOTE (Zöltuger @ Aug 25 2008, 12:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well said Robin

I love it how this guy says he's gone, but really he still lurks on NZFF looking to disagree with anyone who likes FS9 better than FSX

You guys all have valid points, different horses for different courses I guess.

[Naki]

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Aug 25 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love it how this guy says he's gone, but really he still lurks on NZFF looking to disagree with anyone who likes FS9 better than FSX

You guys all have valid points, different horses for different courses I guess.

Ditto

But we are heading way off subject! ...but I have to put my two cents worth in.

- I would probably have FSX if I had a big enough hard drive to have both sims running on the same PC.

- I am not ditching FS9 so I can install FSX after I have spent a fair bit of time and money on adding a ton of addons over the years (and long before FSX existed) and then find I can't use them anymore - some of my favourite addons aren't available in FSX - for example Dreamfleet Baron and Archer, Glacier Bay, Portland and Tongass scenerys. There is only one add on that I really want that is available only for FSX and that is Realair Mark 9 Spitfire. I am not ditching $100s of add ons for just one aircraft. Until there is a decent amount add ons available I might make the move.

- there is still a lot of payware developers developing for both platforms (Dreamfleet, Eaglesoft, Flytampa etc). If all my favourite developers suddenly stopped developing for FS9 (and this will happen eventually but its taking a long time - a lot longer than I originally thought) then I will probably move and I think the catalyst for me is when Robin makes FSX only scenery - dont let that stop you from making Auckland available for FS9 though Robin!

- when you think about its the excellent add ons from the addon developers that have fragmented the market as the many addons have made FS9 a very nice sim and there is reluctance for those that have spent time and money on FS9 won't make the move until all those add ons are FSX compatible - and I suspect some of those add ons wont become FSX compatible.

- the add ons for FSX are/were too slow in coming out mainly due to problems with FSX at release - I suspect by the time the addons I want are available for FSX, FS11 will be here

[toprob]

QUOTE (Naki @ Aug 25 2008, 05:23 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

- the add ons for FSX are/were too slow in coming out mainly due to problems with FSX at release - I suspect by the time the addons I want are available for FSX, FS11 will be here

This is a major issue, but there are a couple of things to consider -- the time between the release of FS2002 and FS2004 was two years, between FS2004 and FSX was three years -- but even though FSX has been out for sometime, there is still over two years before the release of FSXI.

And one last thing -- how long does it take for a freeware developer to produce a quality aircraft? I suspect between one and two years. Which is why we are seeing a glut of FS2004 releases -- when FSX came out, I bet a lot of these developers thought they better get a wriggle on:)

[Zöltuger]

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Aug 25 2008, 04:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I love it how this guy says he's gone, but really he still lurks on NZFF looking to disagree with anyone who likes FS9 better than FSX

I came on NZFF to see what other people thought of Nigel's brilliant CT4, and I'm disappointed (perhaps not surprised) that yet again it's turned into FSX bashing. This isn't about which sim is better - it's about being grateful that Nigel has put in hundreds of hours to create a payware quality piece of New Zealand aviation - and it's available for FREE!

[Timmo]

Well, personally I think that freeware developers develop for two reasons:
1) FUN! There isnt a lot of rhyme or reason to the stuff I make (and Creator2003 is probably similar?) I just make things that appeal to me...Once it is finished I dont really have a lot of incentive to redo it all again since I've learned what I wanted to or done what I set out to do. FSX has been much more fun than my foray into FS9 design and the end results are better. It may come as a surprise, but my additions to the NZ scenery library have been more fuelled by self interest than any philanthropic ideals. I do it to benefit/interest ME first and foremost. That it helps others comes secondary.

2) Learning new things. I dont personally see a lot of point learning techniques, tweaks and work arounds that are out of date- I would rather concentrate on learning things that will help me with the current version of the sim, and better prepare me for the next version of it. Pretty much any game now days uses bump maps, fresnel ramps etc so learning how to create and apply these will help me keep current with other things too.


I didnt buy any FS9 addons and only got into it at the end of its life cycle. I can understand the reluctance of people who have spent alot in FS9 to move to FSX and (potentially) lose those addons, but this doesnt mean FSX is a bad sim. I liken it to people that have spent thousands modifying say a old Primera with mags, spoliers, stereo, paint and then expect to sell it for a heap of money. To everyone else it is just an old car that doesnt suit them and is less well specced than a newer/faster car they could buy for less money.

[creator2003]

Zol you are right and there are lots of threads here that only say good things about the trainer and Nigel work getting it out there for us all to enjoy,on the other hand this thread was started with WASTELAND and FSX in the first couple of lines and you wonder why it has turned into this ..
we do have a mixed bunch around here thats what makes it diverse community and every now and again we clash on the sims ,i think this is good as it shows different points of views and opens up talks that usually get put in to the to hard to talk about basket ..
We all know where Fsim is taking us and if we dont we get the info from these topics ,i gave up along time ago with 9 knowing that to move forward 4 me is to let go of my comfort zone and try new things and i couldnt be happyier with the results ,yes im a designer and yes FSX has more to offer for my skills but also my old computer runs better than it ever did before with it ..
Im not market driven yet but it does get me worried sometimes that there are only a couple of us out there designing for FSX and i hate to think of what cover in NZ we will have later on down the track ,There is so much to do and make i wonder if we will have the NZ we had in FS9 in the future if there are so many that wont move on for whatever reasons ,
Nigel has made a big impact on this worry for me as the more out there the better its going to be for all of us i just hope i can do my part and take on the workload that others mite of done for you guys in the future if not is going to be a sad place in the world to sim in ...