More news here......................
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/5...es-black-boxes/
Lawrie.
No survivors in Air NZ plane crash
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by ardypilot » Sun Nov 30, 2008 10:19 am
Here's a summery of events from the last few days then:
Efforts to explain the mystery crash of the Air New Zealand Airbus in France may take months as experts rule out the most likely causes for its abrupt plunge into the Mediterranean Sea.
Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe is due in Perpignan today with a support crew and relatives of one of the five New Zealanders killed, vowing to "bring our team home".
No hope is now held that any of the men survived the impact of Friday's crash. The Air NZ staff who died were captain Brian Horrell, 52, and engineers Michael Gyles, 49, Murray White, 37, and Noel Marsh, 35. Civil Aviation Authority inspector Jeremy Cook, 58, was the fifth New Zealander to die. Two German pilots also lost their lives.
Bad weather yesterday hampered the recovery and only two bodies, still unidentified, have so far been recovered.
The head of the rescue operation in France said the most important job was finding the remaining five bodies. Gendarme Pierre Renault said once they were found they could be handed over to families "so they can start mourning".
The rescue efforts, involving a rotating team of divers, helped by a robot aboard an anti-mining navy vessel, continued to be hampered by poor visibility stirred up by heavy seas.
"Normally the sea should be clear blue, and authorities should be able to see the plane in the sand on the seabed, but today this is not possible."
Signals from the two flight recorders have been detected and a team of 10 specialist divers were due to go back into the water at 8pm last night to retrieve them. Debris that has already been recovered includes a shoe, lifejackets and fuselage insulation. Part of one wing was found floating but has not yet been recovered.
Air NZ group general manager Ed Sims said 75 French personnel were involved in the recovery efforts. He said confirmation that the victims were presumed dead was "difficult and devastating news for the families of all concerned".
A message from the pilots to the air control tower at Perpignan airport just minutes before the crash gave no hint of any danger.
There was no mayday and the aircraft was already in the "corridor" lined up to land at the airport before it crashed four nautical miles off the coast.
The plane appeared to nosedive into the sea, breaking up into fragments now strewn over a wide area, dispersed by sea currents for dozens of kilometres along the French coast.
"Nobody saw exactly what happened... it is like a puzzle that we have to piece together," said Renault, who predicted the technical investigation would take months.
The Perpignan paper L'independant reported that the maintenance company which had the aircraft for 12 days said it was in perfect condition when they handed it back, three hours before the crash.
Fernand Ejnes, director of EAS Industries, said the work was mainly decor and paintwork. Everything was simply put in order to enable it to receive New Zealand licensing.
Leading New Zealand aviation writer Rob Neil agreed the crash remained "extremely mysterious". The Pacific Wings magazine editor said news reports did not point to any obvious cause.
Neil told the Sunday Star-Times that bird-strike was unlikely to be the cause, and in any case the crew would have time for a mayday call.
Horrell, who was sitting in the jump seat behind the two German pilots, was an "incredibly meticulous pilot, absolutely professional in everything he did", Neil said.
He and the Air NZ engineers would have checked the maintenance done on the plane and if they were not happy with it, they would not have flown in the aircraft.
Horrell, although he was not flying the plane, was in effect one of the flight crew and would have immediately communicated with the others had he had noticed anything amiss.
The Airbus 320 was one of the two workhorses of the world's airlines. Even Boeing, maker of the other most popular narrow-bodied airliner, the Boeing 737, conceded that it was a safe aeroplane.
The plane was relatively new and the maintenance firm, EAS Industries, was a reputable company.
The Airbus was reportedly about 300m above the sea and it was very lightly loaded. It would therefore have "plenty of performance" and was extremely unlikely to suddenly plummet. That was likely only in a violent thunderstorm or during what was known as a microburst, a highly concentrated and localised downward wind associated with thunderstorms. News reports did not suggest such weather.
THE MISSING KIWI CREW
BRIAN HORRELL, 52, Auckland
Air New Zealand captain
Southland-born Horrell grew up on the family farm at Te Tua near Tuatapere in Southland. His love of flying began with hang-gliders, representing New Zealand at the world championships in France.
After working as a pilot for Water Wings in Te Anau, he joined Air New Zealand in Christchurch his 22-year career taking him from Friendships to Boeings, from the South Island to Auckland, where he became a training captain for Airbus.
Family described Horrell as a dedicated family man to his wife Shelley and their teenage children Olivia, 19, and Logan, 17. His parents, Herbert and Moira, who are both in their 80s and live in Tuatapere, are said to be "shattered". Air New Zealand sent support staff to be with them, and also his wife and children, in Auckland.
NOEL MARSH, 35, Christchurch
Air New Zealand engineer
A heavily-pregnant Tracy Marsh kissed her husband goodbye in France last week and flew home to Christchurch with their two young children.
Noel Marsh, 35, died in the crash just two weeks before he was due to come home for the birth of his third child and on the day his five-year-old son should have been starring with the rest of his classmates in his school's end-of-year production. But instead of flitting around the stage as a sandfly, Leon Marsh was at home with his mum in Rolleston, south of Christchurch, struggling to understand why he wasn't going to see his dad again.
Marsh, an engineer with Air New Zealand for the past six years, was in France for the handover of the A320 from German XL Airways but had organised for his wife and children to fly over for the family holiday of a lifetime. Family said Marsh, who had been with Air New Zealand for six years, relished the opportunity to travel to Europe to be involved in the acceptance process for the A320. They were extremely proud of the man who they said loved his job.
MICHAEL GYLES, 49, Christchurch
Air New Zealand engineer
The father of two teenage boys, Gyles has been described as a dedicated family man. He had 30 years' service with Air New Zealand, starting as an apprentice and working his way up. A quiet man with exceptional skills, Gyles was reported as being well-liked by colleagues. Some of his family were yesterday on their way to France while the remainder were gathering in Christchurch to mourn a man they say loved his family and his job.
MURRAY WHITE, 37, Auckland
Air New Zealand engineer
White lived in Pakuranga, Auckland, and had been with Air New Zealand for the past 19 years.
He was acting as an observer on the flight and was said to be a highly skilled engineer.
JEREMY COOK, 58, Wellington
Civil Aviation Authority inspector
Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) staff have been in shock over the death of Cook but are continuing to provide support to his wife Sally and children.
CAA staff said Cook was a popular and respected engineer. Acting director Graeme Harris said Cook was an aviation enthusiast with a long career dedicated to enhancing aviation safety standards.
He joined the CAA as airworthiness inspector in April, 2005. He was a licensed maintenance engineer with an extensive background in aircraft maintenance.
Cook had worked for Air Niugini in Papua New Guinea, Ansett New Zealand and the Christchurch Engine Centre. In his role at CAA he processed the entry of aircraft into the New Zealand civil aviation system, assessing applications for the issue or change to aircraft airworthiness certificates. Harris said Cook was a valued member of the CAA's Aircraft Certification Unit and was widely respected in his field.
It is understood members of the Cook family flew to Europe last night.
Timeline to disaster
2am Friday (NZ time): Plane handed back by EAS Industries, which had carried out light technical work on the aircraft.
2.43am: Take off at Perpignan Airport. Flight plan is filed and plane flies south-west towards the coast.
3.46am: Last call by crew to air traffic control. Authorities describe a banal exchange, there is no sign of alarm.
4.45am: The crash. Onlookers say it appeared the aircraft was trying to approach the airport when it made an unexpected turn followed by a steep climb. Then it nosedived into the sea. They say it appeared the pilot did everything possible to avoid crashing into the coastal town of Le Canet en Rousillon, the seaside town 10km east of Perpignan.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4777642a11.html
Efforts to explain the mystery crash of the Air New Zealand Airbus in France may take months as experts rule out the most likely causes for its abrupt plunge into the Mediterranean Sea.
Air New Zealand chief executive Rob Fyfe is due in Perpignan today with a support crew and relatives of one of the five New Zealanders killed, vowing to "bring our team home".
No hope is now held that any of the men survived the impact of Friday's crash. The Air NZ staff who died were captain Brian Horrell, 52, and engineers Michael Gyles, 49, Murray White, 37, and Noel Marsh, 35. Civil Aviation Authority inspector Jeremy Cook, 58, was the fifth New Zealander to die. Two German pilots also lost their lives.
Bad weather yesterday hampered the recovery and only two bodies, still unidentified, have so far been recovered.
The head of the rescue operation in France said the most important job was finding the remaining five bodies. Gendarme Pierre Renault said once they were found they could be handed over to families "so they can start mourning".
The rescue efforts, involving a rotating team of divers, helped by a robot aboard an anti-mining navy vessel, continued to be hampered by poor visibility stirred up by heavy seas.
"Normally the sea should be clear blue, and authorities should be able to see the plane in the sand on the seabed, but today this is not possible."
Signals from the two flight recorders have been detected and a team of 10 specialist divers were due to go back into the water at 8pm last night to retrieve them. Debris that has already been recovered includes a shoe, lifejackets and fuselage insulation. Part of one wing was found floating but has not yet been recovered.
Air NZ group general manager Ed Sims said 75 French personnel were involved in the recovery efforts. He said confirmation that the victims were presumed dead was "difficult and devastating news for the families of all concerned".
A message from the pilots to the air control tower at Perpignan airport just minutes before the crash gave no hint of any danger.
There was no mayday and the aircraft was already in the "corridor" lined up to land at the airport before it crashed four nautical miles off the coast.
The plane appeared to nosedive into the sea, breaking up into fragments now strewn over a wide area, dispersed by sea currents for dozens of kilometres along the French coast.
"Nobody saw exactly what happened... it is like a puzzle that we have to piece together," said Renault, who predicted the technical investigation would take months.
The Perpignan paper L'independant reported that the maintenance company which had the aircraft for 12 days said it was in perfect condition when they handed it back, three hours before the crash.
Fernand Ejnes, director of EAS Industries, said the work was mainly decor and paintwork. Everything was simply put in order to enable it to receive New Zealand licensing.
Leading New Zealand aviation writer Rob Neil agreed the crash remained "extremely mysterious". The Pacific Wings magazine editor said news reports did not point to any obvious cause.
Neil told the Sunday Star-Times that bird-strike was unlikely to be the cause, and in any case the crew would have time for a mayday call.
Horrell, who was sitting in the jump seat behind the two German pilots, was an "incredibly meticulous pilot, absolutely professional in everything he did", Neil said.
He and the Air NZ engineers would have checked the maintenance done on the plane and if they were not happy with it, they would not have flown in the aircraft.
Horrell, although he was not flying the plane, was in effect one of the flight crew and would have immediately communicated with the others had he had noticed anything amiss.
The Airbus 320 was one of the two workhorses of the world's airlines. Even Boeing, maker of the other most popular narrow-bodied airliner, the Boeing 737, conceded that it was a safe aeroplane.
The plane was relatively new and the maintenance firm, EAS Industries, was a reputable company.
The Airbus was reportedly about 300m above the sea and it was very lightly loaded. It would therefore have "plenty of performance" and was extremely unlikely to suddenly plummet. That was likely only in a violent thunderstorm or during what was known as a microburst, a highly concentrated and localised downward wind associated with thunderstorms. News reports did not suggest such weather.
THE MISSING KIWI CREW
BRIAN HORRELL, 52, Auckland
Air New Zealand captain
Southland-born Horrell grew up on the family farm at Te Tua near Tuatapere in Southland. His love of flying began with hang-gliders, representing New Zealand at the world championships in France.
After working as a pilot for Water Wings in Te Anau, he joined Air New Zealand in Christchurch his 22-year career taking him from Friendships to Boeings, from the South Island to Auckland, where he became a training captain for Airbus.
Family described Horrell as a dedicated family man to his wife Shelley and their teenage children Olivia, 19, and Logan, 17. His parents, Herbert and Moira, who are both in their 80s and live in Tuatapere, are said to be "shattered". Air New Zealand sent support staff to be with them, and also his wife and children, in Auckland.
NOEL MARSH, 35, Christchurch
Air New Zealand engineer
A heavily-pregnant Tracy Marsh kissed her husband goodbye in France last week and flew home to Christchurch with their two young children.
Noel Marsh, 35, died in the crash just two weeks before he was due to come home for the birth of his third child and on the day his five-year-old son should have been starring with the rest of his classmates in his school's end-of-year production. But instead of flitting around the stage as a sandfly, Leon Marsh was at home with his mum in Rolleston, south of Christchurch, struggling to understand why he wasn't going to see his dad again.
Marsh, an engineer with Air New Zealand for the past six years, was in France for the handover of the A320 from German XL Airways but had organised for his wife and children to fly over for the family holiday of a lifetime. Family said Marsh, who had been with Air New Zealand for six years, relished the opportunity to travel to Europe to be involved in the acceptance process for the A320. They were extremely proud of the man who they said loved his job.
MICHAEL GYLES, 49, Christchurch
Air New Zealand engineer
The father of two teenage boys, Gyles has been described as a dedicated family man. He had 30 years' service with Air New Zealand, starting as an apprentice and working his way up. A quiet man with exceptional skills, Gyles was reported as being well-liked by colleagues. Some of his family were yesterday on their way to France while the remainder were gathering in Christchurch to mourn a man they say loved his family and his job.
MURRAY WHITE, 37, Auckland
Air New Zealand engineer
White lived in Pakuranga, Auckland, and had been with Air New Zealand for the past 19 years.
He was acting as an observer on the flight and was said to be a highly skilled engineer.
JEREMY COOK, 58, Wellington
Civil Aviation Authority inspector
Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) staff have been in shock over the death of Cook but are continuing to provide support to his wife Sally and children.
CAA staff said Cook was a popular and respected engineer. Acting director Graeme Harris said Cook was an aviation enthusiast with a long career dedicated to enhancing aviation safety standards.
He joined the CAA as airworthiness inspector in April, 2005. He was a licensed maintenance engineer with an extensive background in aircraft maintenance.
Cook had worked for Air Niugini in Papua New Guinea, Ansett New Zealand and the Christchurch Engine Centre. In his role at CAA he processed the entry of aircraft into the New Zealand civil aviation system, assessing applications for the issue or change to aircraft airworthiness certificates. Harris said Cook was a valued member of the CAA's Aircraft Certification Unit and was widely respected in his field.
It is understood members of the Cook family flew to Europe last night.
Timeline to disaster
2am Friday (NZ time): Plane handed back by EAS Industries, which had carried out light technical work on the aircraft.
2.43am: Take off at Perpignan Airport. Flight plan is filed and plane flies south-west towards the coast.
3.46am: Last call by crew to air traffic control. Authorities describe a banal exchange, there is no sign of alarm.
4.45am: The crash. Onlookers say it appeared the aircraft was trying to approach the airport when it made an unexpected turn followed by a steep climb. Then it nosedived into the sea. They say it appeared the pilot did everything possible to avoid crashing into the coastal town of Le Canet en Rousillon, the seaside town 10km east of Perpignan.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/4777642a11.html
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by Chairman » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:00 pm
This is the latest theory - I've never heard of this causing a crash before but I suppose there's a first time for everything.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...7-12335,00.html
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story...7-12335,00.html
QUOTE
INVESTIGATORS are looking at whether a paint job may have been the reason an Air New Zealand Airbus plunged into the sea, killing seven people.
French aviation officials were investigating whether the repainting of the plane in Air NZ livery affected external instruments providing data to the A320 aircraft's systems, Stuff.co.nz reported today.
Two bodies have recovered from the crash scene in the Mediterranean Sea off France but five are believed to be still trapped in the fuselage of the four-year-old Airbus A320.
The plane had been chartered to a German carrier and was undergoing tests before being handed back to Air NZ.
It made the fatal flight last wek after a firm in Perpignan, France, had repainted the exterior, Stuff said.
A cockpit voice recorder had been recovered by French divers and the cause of the crash was expected to be known within two days of experts deciphering its contents, deputy Perpignan prosecutor Diminique Alzeari said.[/quote]
French aviation officials were investigating whether the repainting of the plane in Air NZ livery affected external instruments providing data to the A320 aircraft's systems, Stuff.co.nz reported today.
Two bodies have recovered from the crash scene in the Mediterranean Sea off France but five are believed to be still trapped in the fuselage of the four-year-old Airbus A320.
The plane had been chartered to a German carrier and was undergoing tests before being handed back to Air NZ.
It made the fatal flight last wek after a firm in Perpignan, France, had repainted the exterior, Stuff said.
A cockpit voice recorder had been recovered by French divers and the cause of the crash was expected to be known within two days of experts deciphering its contents, deputy Perpignan prosecutor Diminique Alzeari said.[/quote]
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by Alex » Mon Dec 01, 2008 1:11 pm
Well, there was the case of the AeroPeru flight (featured on the Air Crash Investigation (or Mayday?) show I think?), which had duct tape over the static ports, whether or not that's similar. This is all really just conjecture from me though.
Alex
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by Charl » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:28 am
There's another story emerging from some incident reports with A330's.
Airbus have 3 flight computers - if one of them is replaced with a similar but not identical unit, there have been situations where elevator control is lost due to conflicting FBW instructions from the control software.
It may have nothing to do with this incident at all, but certainly is a HU for the maintenance folk.
Airbus have 3 flight computers - if one of them is replaced with a similar but not identical unit, there have been situations where elevator control is lost due to conflicting FBW instructions from the control software.
It may have nothing to do with this incident at all, but certainly is a HU for the maintenance folk.
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by Ian Warren » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:43 am
Charl wrote:QUOTE (Charl @ Dec 3 2008, 11:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>There's another story emerging from some incident reports with A330's.
Airbus have 3 flight computers - if one of them is replaced with a similar but not identical unit, there have been situations where elevator control is lost due to conflicting FBW instructions from the control software.
It may have nothing to do with this incident at all, but certainly is a HU for the maintenance folk.
funny you should mention that Charl , they have that issue with a primary machine at work , replaced the takeup for no real reason , it was the other end with the extruding of copper with the problem .. instead of getting least 20kms of cable ... the software on the spooling end ( takeup ) decides its had enough and crashs between 1 to 4 kms .. software conflict ! .......... boy and the price off copper ooooooo thats got hurt !Last edited by Ian Warren on Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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by Chairman » Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:27 am
An interesting little article from flightglobal.com. Just the first few words were enough to catch my eye ...
Gary
Gary
A320 test flight ends with crash into sea on approach
By David Learmount
The XL Airways Airbus A320 lost off France's Mediterranean south-west coast was the third of the type to crash offshore near an airport, but this aircraft was on a post-maintenance test sortie, not a scheduled revenue flight like the others (see below). All seven crew on board were killed. A witness to the 27 November crash says the aircraft "really dived" into the water soon after it had intercepted the distance measuring equipment arc 11nm (20.3km) from Perpignan airport over the sea to the east.
Perpignan air traffic control had cleared the aircraft to LANET - a waypoint on the DME arc east-south-east of the airport - and to descend to 4,000ft (1,220m) for an instrument landing system approach for Runway 33. The pilot's acknowledgement of this instruction was the last contact. There was no emergency call. If this description is accurate, the aircraft would have been heading roughly south to intercept the ILS when it crashed.
The aircraft (D-AXLA) had been leased for two years to XL's German division by Air New Zealand's Freedom Air, and it had been at Perpignan to undergo maintenance at EAS Industries before being returned to its owner. The flight, which had reportedly lasted at least 1h before the crash, was a post-maintenance check flight from which the aircraft was due to return to Perpignan.
Airbus says the aircraft had accumulated 7,000 flight hours over 2,800 cycles. Meteorological data from Perpignan airport at the time of the accident - just before 17:00 local time - shows visibility as good, wind light, with high overcast.
Within 24h the French navy had positioned a minesweeper with divers to the site to recover the flight data and voice recorders and pass them on to the French accident investigation agency BEA
Twice since 2000 an A320 has crashed into the sea just offshore of an airport, but under very different circumstances: both the others were flying at night with no external visual reference and had to carry out go-arounds involving 180° climbing turns.
Both reports said the crews became disorientated and failed to recover from extreme attitudes in time to avoid hitting the sea. The first, in August 2000, involved a Gulf Air A320 at Bahrain, and the second was an Armavia A320 at Sochi.
Whatever went wrong at Perpignan, the crew had good external visual references. Also, statistically, non-revenue flights, including post-maintenance test flights or crew-only positioning flights, have a far higher accident rate than scheduled passenger flights.
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by HercFeend » Fri Jan 23, 2009 10:27 pm
Latest (for those who haven't heard already). On this evenings news.
Airbus have released a maintenance bulletin that mentions, amongst other safety considerations, aircraft painting and the subsequent potential for blocking the Pitot Static system.
This is not going to end well for a French aircraft painter if further investigations do lead to this being a contributing factor in the ANZ crash!!
Airbus have released a maintenance bulletin that mentions, amongst other safety considerations, aircraft painting and the subsequent potential for blocking the Pitot Static system.
This is not going to end well for a French aircraft painter if further investigations do lead to this being a contributing factor in the ANZ crash!!
' Have you ever notice that the experts who decree that the age of the pilot is over are people who have never flown anything? In spite of the intensity of their feelings that the pilot's day is over I know of no expert who has volunteered to be a passenger in a non-piloted aircraft..'
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by d3fai13r » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:00 pm
Interim report
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/d-la081127...-la081127ea.pdf
http://www.bea.aero/docspa/2008/d-la081127...-la081127ea.pdf
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