NZ Autogen project?

[toprob]

Did you ever wonder why we are all so small when we are born?

There are a lot of very good reasons -- we are easy to carry around, we don't eat a lot of the tribe's resources before we can contribute, and bath-time is a lot easier.

Sometimes starting out small is the best way to go. It's been almost a year since Christian's 'I have a dream' speech, and a year is a long time in flightsim -- about 20 human years. The problem is it's difficult to jump in when you know to have to do EVERYTHING, so I thought in 2009 we might try a different tack, and start small.

One project which I've always wanted is a local autogen texture set -- the default autogen buildings are already pretty unnatural looking, and the fact that it looks like some other country's unnatural buildings doesn't help either.

This week I saw this on Avsim -- FSX Enhanced Autogen Word (sic), which is an autogen 'enhancement'. From a quick look, there've merely boosted the contrast of the default autogen textures, but the overall effect is good. It did remind me that this is one area which could definitely do with an improvement in NZ, though.

I could do this myself, but frankly I'd have to charge for it. In 2009 I'll have to spend less time on freeware projects, if I believe what I hear from the doom and gloom merchants, and I think I do believe them. There hasn't been a lot of money made in scenery development in 2008, and 2009 will be a lot tougher.

So I'm just putting it out as an idea for a small project for someone to get stuck into. I can help a lot, and maybe it's a good job for a team.

Some initial thoughts:

To make things clear, I'm talking about a new set of autogen building textures showing real Kiwi houses and buildings, made from photos of real Kiwi houses and buildings. VOZ did this for Australia, and this is one of the aspects of what Orbx do for Australia with their payware scenery.

I'm talking textures only, which means that the shapes will stay the same. We'll still have far too many double-storey houses, and funny roofs.

Trees can be simpler or more difficult, depending on your skills, so these are optional.

When I said that this was a small project, I may have underestimated the work involved. Or not. Just determining what sort of buildings to show may take a month or three, figuring out how the autogen works, then there's the photography, tidying them up, converting to textures, testing etc.

I'm not too interested in a FS2004 version, since I no longer use it, but the principle is the same for both versions.

Any takers?

[Timmo]

I have started a small library of tree textures so I can add these into the mix

I will need help getting more tree photos though. Like you Rob, it has been on my 'to do list'...but a fair way down.

[pilotgallagher01]

Sounds Great, I am interested

[NZ255]

I'm in, I think I read in the SDK that you can make a complete new set (FSX) so that you don't have to run a VOZ like program to back up and install the new textures. This would be much better so you can fly from NZ to USA (eg) and you have appropriate textures at each end.

Is this possible?

Nick

[toprob]

QUOTE (NZ255 @ Dec 20 2008, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm in, I think I read in the SDK that you can make a complete new set (FSX) so that you don't have to run a VOZ like program to back up and install the new textures. This would be much better so you can fly from NZ to USA (eg) and you have appropriate textures at each end.

Is this possible?

Nick

You can create your own autogen, but that won't really help here -- you'd then need to figure out what to do with it:) You'd probably need to create your own texture set as well, or at least change all the autogen on the existing textures. Believe me, what VOZ/Orbx did was the easy way...

However it can be simpler, in that there are already regional autogen texture sets in FSX. For instance, the main autogen building textures used in NZ are not used in the US, although we do share them with some parts of the world.

Here, I've filled the main NZ autogen texture with radioactive goo so that it stands out...

Top is Christchurch, centre is Sydney, bottom is LA:



So, no goo in LA.

[NZ255]

QUOTE (toprob @ Dec 20 2008, 05:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Believe me, what VOZ/Orbx did was the easy way...

But what about Kiwi ingenuity!

Only Ozzie's take the easy way out:



Oh wait...I'm an Ozzie.....

[NZ255]

Or is it just not possible?

[toprob]

QUOTE (NZ255 @ Dec 20 2008, 06:19 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or is it just not possible?

I'm not quite sure what you are asking here. Is it possible to create your own autogen? Yes. Is it possible to replace or alter the existing textures without affecting other parts of the world? No. Is it possible to add a specific NZ region which is separate from the rest of the world? No, you can't add a region, you can only alter the existing regions.

What I'm talking about here is to change only the default autogen textures used in NZ. As you can see, this will change the textures used in Australia, but not the US. (To some extent -- it isn't really apparent from my screenshots here, but the house roofs come from a separate texture, while the warehouse roofs come from the same texture -- dunno why.)

As I said in my original post, it would be important to figure out exactly how the autogen system works. I have a fairly basic knowledge, so we'd need to do some studying.

[NZ255]

OK.....sorry for being very vague. Yes I meant adding a region.


I'm still keen to be part of the team though.

Should make a huge improvement.

Anyway......it doesn't really matter to have to VOZ program anyway, becasue you don't have to restart FSX.

[toprob]

The main reason why VOZ/Orbx has such a big impact on worldwide textures is that they change the actual landclass textures, as well as the autogen. The landclass textures are not as regional as the autogen textures, so any change there will affect textures worldwide.

That's why I'm thinking of starting small, with autogen textures only, because the effect is less intrusive.

[Ian Warren]

AUTOGEN .......... maybe .. maybe not

[ardypilot]

QUOTE

Is it possible to replace or alter the existing textures without affecting other parts of the world? No. Is it possible to add a specific NZ region which is separate from the rest of the world? No[/quote]
Perhaps someone could create a small program / batch file thingy like the VOZ switcher that loads the NZ textures at your request and puts the default textures in a backup folder while you fly, then once you close the sim down, you can switch back to the originals?

I don't have any programming experience, but I'd be happy to help in means of supplying photos- not sure if there are any legal issues about taking photos of other peoples houses though... maybe source some from Google Maps Streetview?

Last edited by ardypilot on Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[Timmo]

QUOTE (Trolly @ Dec 21 2008, 07:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't have any programming experience, but I'd be happy to help in means of supplying photos- not sure if there are any legal issues about taking photos of other peoples houses though... maybe source some from Google Maps Streetview?

Street view wont have the resolution needed (i.e they are compressed to hell) and would probably run into licensing issues. The raw photo will need to be substantiall edited before being put on the texture sheet because they need to line up exactly at the pixel level (Autogen sheets are spit into regions defined by pixels)......you would hardly recognise your own house so I don't think it will an issue.

The hardest part will be finding suitable houses (i.e. free of shrubbery etc).....state houses are good as they often lack landscaping/planting which cuts down on the photoshop work. New subdivisions would likely be a good treasure trove for the same reason.

I use the sides of sheds for my roof textures. Im not sure how easy it would be to obtain a roof texture for slate/state house ceramic tile though...

[toprob]

QUOTE (Timmo @ Dec 21 2008, 08:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The hardest part will be finding suitable houses (i.e. free of shrubbery etc).....state houses are good as they often lack landscaping/planting which cuts down on the photoshop work. New subdivisions would likely be a good treasure trove for the same reason.

Yes, determining the quintessential NZ house, and getting the perfect shot, is the main issue here. We want to keep away from the quite common desire to go overboard. (I'm always amazed at how easy it is to find a FS model of a Ferrari, but a lot harder to find a honda:)

NZ houses tend to be wood or brick. It's no good coming back and saying, hey, I live in a stone house, or a marble palace -- we want to find the typical NZ house, rather than the best.

One of the reasons why I suggested this project is that it is so easy to take a picture of a house, most of us have one or two within walking distance:)

Just bear in mind that Autogen houses are always rectangular, whereas most houses are not, which does skew the options a bit. Although house photos must be clear of trees, shrubs etc can stay.

From a quick look at the autogen, it does appear that the same texture is normally used on each side of the house. All the houses are two-storey, but on single-storey houses only the bottom half is used.

Here's what we have to deal with. First is the whole autogen building texture sheet, shrunk to 50%. Then the bottom bit of the texture sheet at full size, showing the house textures.

There are twelve house slots available, plus a lot of different roofs.

[Adamski]

QUOTE (toprob @ Dec 21 2008, 08:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, determining the quintessential NZ house and getting the perfect shot, is the main issue here.

Easy ... it just has to LEAK

[NZ255]

So there are only 12 houses? Or is that 1 of 25 texture sheets?

[toprob]

QUOTE (NZ255 @ Dec 21 2008, 11:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So there are only 12 houses? Or is that 1 of 25 texture sheets?

There's only one sheet with houses in NZ, but it gets a bit more complicated than that -- for instance, the house roofs are from another sheet.

I am interested in redoing all the autogen, really, so there is more to it than just the houses. You can see the type of buildings which are included in this one sheet, NZ buildings tend to have a bit more concrete (which makes them brighter), but there are also things like fast-food restaurants, service stations etc.

[NZ255]

So do you know how many texture sheets there are with NZ autogen altogether?


So we will need to find out what fraction out of 12 are different kinds of houses.

Eg
3/12 - state houses
2/12 - flash houses

and so on.

[deaneb]

This link outlines some of the different hous styles in NZ. I think the autogen project is a great idea, but there will need to be some balance, between new and old house styles and the majority will need to reflect the most common house types in NZ. Also, I don't know if the textures are applied equally to the buildings, i.e. each of the 12 textures is used roughly the same proportion to the autogen buildings or whether some are repeated more often.

Deane

[toprob]

QUOTE (deaneb @ Dec 22 2008, 08:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This link outlines some of the different hous styles in NZ. I think the autogen project is a great idea, but there will need to be some balance, between new and old house styles and the majority will need to reflect the most common house types in NZ. Also, I don't know if the textures are applied equally to the buildings, i.e. each of the 12 textures is used roughly the same proportion to the autogen buildings or whether some are repeated more often.

Deane

Nice. Is it just me, or are some of the images missing from that link?
For me, the 'modern townhouse' is the tricky one -- not to mention that all the autogen has one of three very basic roof types. If you look at the townhouse-style house in the default texture set earlier, and find those buildings within the sim, then you'll see what the problem is -- it doesn't really look like a house at all to me.

I did a quick test -- replacing each of the 12 house textures with a solid colour -- and it is obvious that the house type is evenly spread. Plus the roof type is random, not related to a specific texture.

Sure, there are plenty of limitations, but that's what makes it a challenge:)