Sinus pain on descent

[greaneyr]

Well ok I admit it... I'm not as flight-hardened as I thought! Last week I flew to Auckland for our annual staff meeting and also a project training day the following day. Flights were the standard Palmy-Auckland ATR/Q300 combo. Nothing I haven't flown in before, though I admit I'm still something of a newcomer to the Q300 having only flown on it twice before.

Northbound ATR flight was awesome (and for once that word is appropriate). We left on the morning where the desert road and National Park roads were both closed in snow, and for once in my life I had clear skies with which to enjoy the view. It was seriously like flying over Europe in the middle of winter. Hilly terrain totally covered in snow, and some light clouds beneath us in patches just adding to the atmosphere. With my MP3 player going the whole time, it was probably the shortest flight I've had from PM to AA.

The flight back home was at night and in the Q300. Nothing eventful. Usual deal at top of descent... Nothing out of the ordinary. Suddenly at what must have been about 6000 or 5000ft I feel a pins and needles sensation between my eyebrows that turns into a pretty sharp and localised pain. This continued in surges and for only the second time I can recall in my life, had me wishing we would just hurry up and land. Typically of course, we flew toward at least a 5 mile final to get a late visual below clouds, which just extended my suffering.

I knew straight away what it was - frontal sinus pain caused by pressure differences. I've known a few people who have experienced it before, but always thought I was a hardened flier... never happens to me yadda yadda yadda. Turns out I was wrong!


Has anyone else had this happen to them before? Does it vary from one aircraft to the next? What do you do to manage it, or preferably, prevent it? It's only the third time I've flown on the Q300 and first time on that particular aircraft.

Richard

[NZ255]

Happened to me on a 747 only on the way back from LAX and then after a few hours of being on the ground it went....then jumped on a 737 and it started again on the descent into NZWN.
Very painful, sharp.

Would love to know if I can prevent it if it happens again.

Edit: My pains were behind my eyebrows, the same as Richard

[pilot.masman]

did you have a cold or a blocked nose, something as simple as that can screw up your sinus equalization thingy

[ZK-KAG]

Gidday Richard I know this exact sensation as I had it little over a week ago. I was flying in the Seneca from Palmy to Auckland and thanks to ATC we were left high for our profile to reach the ILS at 3000ft from our 13000ft cruising altitude. It resulted in a 1500ft/min descent which was pretty sore on the old sinuses as I had had a cold a day or two before. It was localised and didnt last very long thankfully but I was really worried that it may get worse (especially being pilot in command ).

At a cruise altitude of around 18000ft (Dash/ATR) the cabin altitude is around 5000ft. So the descent rate of the cabin is less than 500ft/min when they descend, so for you to be getting those symptoms you must have been really blocked up!

This wont vary much on different aircraft as they all have simlar presurissation systems althought certain descents may be steeper resulting in a greater pressure differential. A good way is to try clear the sinuses before flight as much as possible, but the best one is not to fly at all as you can cause some serious long term damage to both your sinuses, middle ear canals and you may even end up with a perforated ear drum (very painful, I would know!!!). However the usual yawning, swallowing may help alleviate the pain. Holding your nose and blowing is a no-no as if you ear cant equalise normally then you are only putting more pressure on the ear drum.

So yeah wouldnt have been anything to do with the Dash, merely the state of the sinuses at the time.

Hope that helps

[cowpatz]

Holding your nose and blowing (Valsalva manoeuvre) is only good for clearing the ears and not the sinuses. A decongestant spray or menthol solution such as Karvol in conjunction with blowing your nose hard works best. I know that Air NZ (737 and above anyway) used to have Karvol capsules that would be broken and applied to a handkerchief and then inhaled. Try carrying something like that next time you fly and apply it well before you might need it. The pain can be excruciating and can last for hours afterwards.

[ZK-KAG]

Sudafed is a great decongestant too, but you need to start it a couple of days before flight.

[WasFlightOps]

I prefer to equalise via another body orrifice......passengers/students may not be as welcoming though

[bennz]

Just chew some gum ( have lots of it in your mouth and keep chewing till you land ) or apple before descend begins.
The reason is related to your sinuses and also air pressure as NZ being so humid place. This will never happen to you if you are descending and landing in a dry location.

However, I get that horrible sinus pain in most planes beside 747 SP. Shame they are not making anymore of those. Crappiest would be 777 and turbo prop planes.

[greaneyr]

The crazy thing with mine is that I wasn't particularly blocked up at all! At least, not on the outside anyway. I've flown with a nose that is more congested before, but never had this kind of thing happen before.

NZ255, when was yours? And have you flown much since then?

[HercFeend]

I had a similar experience a few years ago flying from LHR to EWR (Newark, NYC) once we started to climb my head felt like it was going to explode with the pain and pressure. I immediately knew it was in my sinuses and was more than likely the residue of a cold I 'though' I was over.... well, I was over it at sea level!!

We spent the long weekend in NYC but knowing full well the return trip wasn't that far away one of the first things I did was find a pharmacy and buy decongestant tables and a nasal spray. I took these for the next few days and the flight back to LHR was much more pleasant and with no pain!

[HardCorePawn]

QUOTE (WasFlightOps @ May 27 2009, 09:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I prefer to equalise via another body orrifice......passengers/students may not be as welcoming though

Still enjoying the One Square Meals then???

I have not as yet found the cranberry flavour... you'll have to hook me up via your secret cookie time contacts

[NZ255]

QUOTE (greaneyr @ May 27 2009, 07:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NZ255, when was yours? And have you flown much since then?

Mine was last year September. Had flown a lot before this. It wasn't blocked before, I didn't have a cold, the first time it happened. But I haven't flow again since.

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (NZ255 @ May 28 2009, 06:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mine was last year September. Had flown a lot before this. It wasn't blocked before, I didn't have a cold, the first time it happened. But I haven't flow again since.

Hmm, sounds the same as me. I'm one of these sad people who records every flight he's been on in recent times, and adding to these the other flights I haven't recorded I'd say I've flown on somewhere between 60-70 flights above 4000ft in my life, and this is the first time anything like this has happened to me. Like you, I wasn't blocked up, and like you I haven't flown since. I'm a bit nervous about it now to tell the truth.

By coincidence, I'm seeing an Ear, Nose and Throat specialist next month, so I'll ask them about it.

EDIT: Seems the Valsalva maneuvre may be useful, according to the FAA anyway: http://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/airman_...d_gas/index.cfm

QUOTE

When the frontal sinuses are affected, the pain will be located above the eyes and usually is quite severe. This type of sinus problem is the most common.

Equalization of pressure to relieve pain in the sinuses is best accomplished by use of the Valsalva procedure, and/or inhalants, previously mentioned in conjunction with ear blocks. Again, you should be very cautious in your use of any over the counter medication.* Reversing the direction of pressure change as rapidly as possible may be necessary to clear severe sinus blocks.[/quote]

Last edited by greaneyr on Thu May 28, 2009 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

[NZ255]

I think i tried everything including that

Valsalva procedure, chewing and swallowing etc....anything to get rid of it.

[greaneyr]

QUOTE (NZ255 @ May 28 2009, 09:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think i tried everything including that

Valsalva procedure, chewing and swallowing etc....anything to get rid of it.

Was your nose particularly dry, for any reason? I've been on antihistamines to try and keep my nose clear at nights, and I have read a few sources saying it can be worse if the sinuses are dry. It was only the second flight I made since i've been on a steady supply of antihistamines, so I'm thinking that could be part of it for me.

[NZ255]

Not sure to be honest.....

[chopper_nut]

Thankfully I dont get this too much, not flying high enough really. I do remember a couple of times where I got it really bad though. First was flying in Hong Kong on a Lufthansa 742 about 13 years ago. That flight was terrible from the point of view that smoking was allowed and the smokers didnt stop for the entire flight. I thought that was the reason untill I was flying into Melbourne on an ANZ 762 in 98 where both my sister and I got it at the same time. Its a strange feeling, I havnt had it since, hopefully Ive grown out of it.

[greaneyr]

Hi everyone.

Sorry to drag up this old thread, but I've just gotten back from a two-day trip and had the exact same thing happen to me today. Was fine on the flight up to Auckland, the return trip from Hamilton to Palmy was not so good. I took a saline spray with me and used it before take-off and again at top of climb. Before tyop of descent, my nose was as clear as it can ever be. No col, no sinus infection recently. No reason to be blocked up... So we start our descent and I'm all tense worrying about what might happen but try to relax. Down we go, through 9000, 8000.... I'm yawning every 30-60 seconds or so to make sure my ears stay clear. We get to 4000, then 3000 and think to myself 'yay I made it'. Visual approach for 07 and we pass overhead Feilding at what must be about 1500-2000 ft then bang, it hits. Exactly the same moment as I hear that 'hissing' noise that sounds like air flowing into the cabin.

The pain was less intense this time, but was still there and hung around at its worst until just after landing.

What's the deal with that air-flowing noise that comes on just before landing? I'm sure it's not, but it seemed like we suddenly equalised our pressure to the exterior. What is it, and why is there a sudden change in cabin pressure as soon as it comes on?

The valsalva maneuvre does absolutely nothing for me, nor does yawning. I obviously need to try a decongestant of some sort next time. It's becoming a bit of a concern. Any thoughts are welcomed.

[ZK-KAG]

Hmmm... from what I can recall on the flight deck visits I've had in the Dash, they set the cabin altitude to aerodrome elevation at around 1500ft so that the pressure is equal when the doors are opened. If there is a large pressure differential between the cabin and aerodrome elevation it may cause the hissing.

Id say you have issues equalising rapidly, its ok at a slow change but the rapid change may be whats causing the pain.

Try PM'ing 'Link148' I think it is, as he is a Dash pilot and may be able to offer advice.

Otherwise ring up Dr Baldwin at PM and see what he has to say, he is a legend when it come to aviation medical things and always great to chat too. He is found at www.flyingdoctor.co.nz

~KAG~

[A185F]

QUOTE (ZK-KAG @ Aug 22 2009, 08:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try PM'ing 'Link148' I think it is, as he is a Dash pilot and may be able to offer advice.

Hahaha now I hope he didn't tell you that....