NZFF

by **dizzzyrascal** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 3:33 pm

Which OS is best for use for fsx?

by **Adamski** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:01 pm

dizzzyrascal wrote:
QUOTE (dizzzyrascal @ Oct 18 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Which OS is best for use for fsx?

Don't touch Vista with a bargepole. It's a *dog*. If you can still get XP (cheap), then go for it.

I bought a new HD to test the Windows7 RC (64-bit) a while back - and put a clean install of FSX on - just to see what happened. It was *great*, so my advice is to wait for Win7.

There are quite a few threads along these lines on NZFF - do a search.

I'm so unimpressed by Vista that I'm quite happy to cough up a second time for Win7. The only thing that's putting me off is the mammoth task of transferring all my paid and freebie add-ons. Time for a bit of a clear-out though

by **toprob** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:26 pm

Vista has a bit of a bad name, for some reason -- I've used both XP and Vista for FSX, and I'm not aware of any difference. However there are some glowing reports from Windows 7, so I am planning to upgrade.

by **pilot.masman** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 4:43 pm

yeah im in the same boat as you rob, i used xp 2005 MCE for a few years and then moved onto vista ultimate hardly any difference fps wise, i then upgraded my pc and tried windows 7 with quite a large fps increase although mostly down to the pc upgrade i have no doubt that it would stay the same fps or slightly higher if i had it on the same pc as the xp and vista...

waiting avidly for oct22 to get my retail copy, using a technet download at the mo

by **dizzzyrascal** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:15 pm

Adamski wrote:
QUOTE (Adamski @ Oct 18 2009, 05:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Don't touch Vista with a bargepole. It's a *dog*. If you can still get XP (cheap), then go for it.

I bought a new HD to test the Windows7 RC (64-bit) a while back - and put a clean install of FSX on - just to see what happened. It was *great*, so my advice is to wait for Win7.

There are quite a few threads along these lines on NZFF - do a search.

I'm so unimpressed by Vista that I'm quite happy to cough up a second time for Win7. The only thing that's putting me off is the mammoth task of transferring all my paid and freebie add-ons. Time for a bit of a clear-out though

I think i will just stick with Xp ...
I installed Vista on another PC and it sucked the life out of my Brothers PC....
Ill wait and try Win7...

pilot.masman wrote:
QUOTE (pilot.masman @ Oct 18 2009, 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
waiting avidly for oct22 to get my retail copy, using a technet download at the mo

I thought Win7 is out next year!!
OMG im goin out to get it on oct22...yay

by **dbcunnz** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:38 pm

dizzzyrascal wrote:
QUOTE (dizzzyrascal @ Oct 18 2009, 04:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Which OS is best for use for fsx?

As you can see by the tests I did http://nzff.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=9903&hl=test I will be setting up my FSX with win7 64bit which has already been ordered and hope to install it all next week.
It is a pity that all aircraft and ai traffic couldn't be easily converted to work with DX10 as you get far better frame rate in DX10 than in DX9

by **Adamski** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:02 pm

Without getting too much into O/S bashing, here's a clip from an interesting item (BBC News) on the imminent Win7 release (Thursday??):

"More importantly, three years ago Microsoft botched the release of Vista, the operating system that preceded Windows 7.

Vista - a bloated, difficult to install operating system - left many early users with suddenly unusable hardware and software. The disaster badly undermined Microsoft's credibility with consumers and software developers.

Today, Vista is still outshone by its eight-year-old predecessor Windows XP. One (particularly low) estimate from web metrics firm Net Applications suggests Vista has a mere 18.6% share of the market. Others put it at just over 35%, which is still a poor figure.

Among companies, "Vista is the worst-adopted operating system", according to Annette Jump, research director at Gartner, a technology research firm. "

Read the full article here ...

So ... stick with XP or go for Windows7!!!

by **markll** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 9:22 pm

Adamski wrote:
QUOTE (Adamski @ Oct 19 2009, 04:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Without getting too much into O/S bashing, here's a clip from an interesting item (BBC News) on the imminent Win7 release (Thursday??):

"More importantly, three years ago Microsoft botched the release of Vista, the operating system that preceded Windows 7.

Vista - a bloated, difficult to install operating system - left many early users with suddenly unusable hardware and software. The disaster badly undermined Microsoft's credibility with consumers and software developers.

Today, Vista is still outshone by its eight-year-old predecessor Windows XP. One (particularly low) estimate from web metrics firm Net Applications suggests Vista has a mere 18.6% share of the market. Others put it at just over 35%, which is still a poor figure.

Among companies, "Vista is the worst-adopted operating system", according to Annette Jump, research director at Gartner, a technology research firm. "

Read the full article here ...

So ... stick with XP or go for Windows7!!!

Intersting you quote from a particularly negative article - shouldn't you also report the other side of things? I'm waiting for the evening out of the bias against Vista

Having said that, I'm using Win7 already, and have been since it became available at the end of July to developers. But you know what? Win Vista is like FSX - it was released with a view to the hardware setup of the future. Vista ran maybe a little slow, and there were some new technogies in it (Desktop Window Manager most noteably) that used way too much memory (thats been fixed in Win 7 btw) but the real issue with Vista was that the third party companies were more than remiss about releasing support for it. I have a Saitek x52 stick and throttle, but it was 12 months before they released a Vista compatible driver! I had some hardware that never had anything besides beta drivers, and I know of plenty of hardware that just NEVER had drivers - creative and logitech were two vendors that were particularly bad for this. At one poitn Logitech stated that they'd only be doing vista drivers for devices that were less than 1 year old at the time Vista released!

Not sure where I'm going with all this, except to say that if you've got a newish machine, you'll have no issues with Vista in fact. But hey, with Win 7 around the corner (well, already here really!) you have two choices - XP if your machine is older and maybe isn't gonna cut it with the newer OSs or Win 7. There si no longer any reason to use Vista.

by **Adamski** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:04 pm

markll wrote:
QUOTE (markll @ Oct 19 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interesting you quote from a particularly negative article - shouldn't you also report the other side of things? I'm waiting for the evening out of the bias against Vista

I'm biased because I've had a particularly rough ride with Vista. Much as I did with WinMe (another *dog*!). But ... Win2k worked like a champ ... and I'm much impressed by XP. It settled down well, and my main (work) PC has run it for years ... *daily* ... and almost flawlessly.

I got conned into Vista as it came pre-installed with my "upgrade" Flight Sim machine (always 10x more powerful than the PC that earns it's keep,

!). Luckily I'm the sole user, so run everything as Admin - though I was a bit disturbed about having to turn off UAC for most things, as I'm generally pretty anal about security.

My other problem with Vista is setting up sound devices. It's totally, utterly, barking mad!!! Almost impossible to set up if your case has more than one input. It tries to be "clever" but just stuffs up. I was going to install a 2nd sound card (as I did in XP) to have FS sound on one card and Teamspeak (or whatever) out of the other ... but I didn't dare try!

markll wrote:
QUOTE (markll @ Oct 19 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Having said that, I'm using Win7 already, and have been since it became available at the end of July to developers. But you know what? Win Vista is like FSX - it was released with a view to the hardware setup of the future. Vista ran maybe a little slow, and there were some new technogies in it (Desktop Window Manager most noteably) that used way too much memory (thats been fixed in Win 7 btw) but the real issue with Vista was that the third party companies were more than remiss about releasing support for it. I have a Saitek x52 stick and throttle, but it was 12 months before they released a Vista compatible driver! I had some hardware that never had anything besides beta drivers, and I know of plenty of hardware that just NEVER had drivers - creative and logitech were two vendors that were particularly bad for this. At one point Logitech stated that they'd only be doing vista drivers for devices that were less than 1 year old at the time Vista released!

Totally with you on that one. My biggest headache was trying to get a [new] D-Link print server to work with Vista. Both my XP systems could see it, my Ubuntu machine ... even my old Win2k laptop! This is down to D-Link, I have to admit. Let's face it - they would have had advance copies of Vista *years* ago. However - I disagree a bit about this "future" idea. Bloatware is bloatware. Getting users to spend hundreds more on hardware just to run a badly designed GUI is just lazy/bad practice.

Same deal with Saitek. I really wonder about that company!!! I have a regular x52 as well. Even today I don't think they have a decent 64-bit version. A basic driver yes - but I don't think there's a graphical profile editor ... yet (must check!).

But yes - pleasantly surprised by my Win7 RC install. Touch wood, my FSX has been behaving itself lately (albeit it taking 10mins to start up - even after "optimising" and many HD defrags) ... but when it finally croaks, I'll be whizzing down to the shops for a copy of Win7.

by **cowpatz** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:29 am

I'm going to call my next mutt "Vista".

by **deaneb** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:22 am

markll wrote:
QUOTE (markll @ Oct 19 2009, 10:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Intersting you quote from a particularly negative article - shouldn't you also report the other side of things? I'm waiting for the evening out of the bias against Vista

I'm with you on that one. I know Vista is not the greatest OS but I, along with three others in our company have had this on our laptops for the past two years and have had very few issues. Granted I'm not running FS or any other advanced stuuf, but its worked faultlessly with most apps, including all my FS design tools. When I set up a wireless home network with a new Belkin wireless router last year I had my laptop up and running wirelessly within minutes. The desktop with XP took hours to sort out. Having said all that, we will be moving to Windows 7 as it certainly offers benefits. I guess it all depends on personal experience.

by **Ian Warren** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:45 am

With all the recent upgrade , well complete rebuild , its to be installed within the next week directly to optimize and use the 64bit DX10 ops , It will be interesting to compare the difference .

by **Adamski** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:58 am

Ian Warren wrote:
QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Oct 20 2009, 11:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
With all the recent upgrade , well complete rebuild , its to be installed within the next week directly to optimize and use the 64bit DX10 ops , It will be interesting to compare the difference.

Beware of DX10. I found that many of my WOAI models ended up with black propellers, some older freeware aircraft didn't display properly, but worse still - some of Rob's sceneries (the FS9 portovers) have blank textures with it on.

I got maybe 1 to 2 fps difference (if that) and promptly turned it off!

EDIT: Some aircraft have DX10 virtual cockpits, but the ones that do usually have a pretty good DX9 one anyway. I could never spot the difference.

by **Ian Warren** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 12:50 pm

Thanx for the headsup Adam , I was guessing it may have huge changes , AI i stick with the ORBX AI s but i think we need to start looking at the model and graphic differences and have fixs and texture changes to suit , this give me the oppitunity to test on some of the later releases .

by **markll** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:46 pm

Ian Warren wrote:
QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Oct 20 2009, 01:50 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Thanx for the headsup Adam , I was guessing it may have huge changes , AI i stick with the ORBX AI s but i think we need to start looking at the model and graphic differences and have fixs and texture changes to suit , this give me the oppitunity to test on some of the later releases .

Hmmm, well, the Orbx AI (FTX AI) still has the "black prop disks" texture issue, though they did do a patch for it...BTW, the 64 bit thing isn't going to matter a damn for FSX, since it's still only a 32bit application...I agree - DX10 doesn't seem to make massive changes the way they made out before the patch that added support for it. Anyone remember the DX10 concept "screenshots" for FSX? In reality the changes are much more subtle. Stuff like the shadows in the VCs...

by **nzav8tor** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:51 pm

Don't forget that a 64 bit system will still allow you to utilise more RAM. So even though FSX is a 32 bit program the overall system, including associated programs, will benefit from having access to more RAM.
Providing of course your system has more than 2 Gb of RAM.

by **Adamski** » Tue Oct 20, 2009 9:27 pm

markll wrote:
QUOTE (markll @ Oct 20 2009, 09:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Hmmm, well, the Orbx AI (FTX AI) still has the "black prop disks" texture issue, though they did do a patch for it...BTW, the 64 bit thing isn't going to matter a damn for FSX, since it's still only a 32bit application...I agree - DX10 doesn't seem to make massive changes the way they made out before the patch that added support for it. Anyone remember the DX10 concept "screenshots" for FSX? In reality the changes are much more subtle. Stuff like the shadows in the VCs...

I just flipped DX10 back on again to check (it's been a while). Not good. Many of the WOAI models have no textures at all (let alone black

) and even my recently purchased Wilco B737 has no textures. I suspect many of my paid and freeware a/c won't have. I just can't be bothered to look!

Maybe the OrbX AI a/c use newer/better textures, but it's still all a definite no-go for me.

by **happytraveller** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 1:34 pm

I got caught up in the hype about Vista, and regretted it many times. I have tried Windows 7 out, and it looks very much like Vista to me.

XP still works well, looks good and is tried and tested, so I will not rush out to get Windows 7 in case it turns out to be another Vista fiasko. Microsoft have had far too much of my money already, and I will wait for all the security faults and flaws in Windows 7 to be discovered (by others) before I part with my money.

The saying is "Once bitten, twice shy".

XP works well, that is the key thing.

smooth landings.

by **ZÃ¶ltuger** » Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:01 pm

markll wrote:
QUOTE (markll @ Oct 19 2009, 09:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Win Vista is like FSX - it was released with a view to the hardware setup of the future

Intriguing comparison. Both FSX and Vista were very slow before their final versions, and for those without mid-range and above hardware, they were pretty slow. Both suffered from bad publicity, e.g.

happytraveller wrote:
QUOTE (happytraveller @ Oct 21 2009, 01:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Once bitten, twice shy

and it seems a bit of opposition to change... leading many not to bother.

But ignore all the publicity - step back and your realise that Vista is better than XP; and FSX is better than FS9. I used both since their release (64-bit Vista too I might add) and never once had an issue with either. Vista is far easier to navigate and more intuitive - going back to XP is like stepping back to Win 95.

And FSX... the level of detail and complexity the sim can achieve is astonishing!

The saddest part of this comparison is that I will install the Windows version after Vista. Windows 7 is brilliant and everything you could hope for in an OS.
But I won't ever be installing the version after FSX.

by **nzav8tor** » Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:47 am

I agree wholeheartedly with that Zolt and have already spied my copy of W7 through the locked cage at Best Buy today. I'll be there to get it tomorrow...

And don't despair, I think Cascade will show us the way forward...

NZFF

XP VISTA WIN7

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