Ardmore flying school

[krispilot]

Hey

Went out to Kawakawa and Maraeti yesterday and passed Ardmore on the way and decided to stop there and get some info about flight training with Ardmore flying school. Was wondering if anyone had done their training at the school or at Auckland aero club and i would like to know what you thought of it (What you liked, disliked etc). If you could share your experince with the school it would be greatly appreaciated. If you did your training with another organisation in Auckland please share your experine with the organistion here too.

Cheers
kris

[FlyingKiwi]

I did all my training at AFS, from nothing to CPL + MEIR. It's a typical flying "school", so it doesn't have the same recreational atmosphere as an aero club, but you receive instruction that is just as good; arguably better in some respects. The beauty of Ardmore airport as a whole is that there are many different organisations and aircraft available to fly on the field, so if you can afford it you can do your training at the flying school, but perhaps fly occasionally at the Aero Club when you just want to go for a flight for fun.

I'm a member at Auckland Aero Club as well, so if I could break it down in to the pros and cons of both, I would say this:

AFS:

Pros - Comprehensive training schedule from student to CPL + MEIR, possibility to progress to instructor rating, large fleet and plenty of available instructors, theory courses available throughout the year, student loan funding available, well known in the industry (inevitably you hear some bad things about them, but the reality is, many many ex-AFS people are now flying airliners, so obviously the airlines aren't prejudiced against them)

Cons - Not much fleet variation (all your flying for PPL and CPL will be on 172s), you do have to deal with people who are obviously not that interested in aviation but just there because it sounded like it would be a cool job, a few of the instructors have a bit of a "holier-than-thou" attitude.

AAC:

Pros - Varied fleet, regular club events, a much better atmosphere than AFS in that everyone who flies there is really keen on aviation, good facilities with a cafe right next door (and a bar open in the evenings!), all the instructors are really nice people.

Cons - No student loan funding available so you have to pay for all your flying out of your own pocket, not very many instructors (although they're usually not too busy), not quite such comprehensive theory courses

You didn't mention whether you are interested in just getting a PPL and flying recreationally, or actually looking at flying as a career, which ultimately I think is the biggest difference between AFS and AAC. If you just want to fly for fun, then AAC are far and away the better choice, but if you're wanting to train to be a professional pilot then AFS are the way to go, unless you have enough money to afford to do it all at AAC.

Hope that was helpful.

[krispilot]

QUOTE (FlyingKiwi @ Oct 26 2009, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did all my training at AFS, from nothing to CPL + MEIR. It's a typical flying "school", so it doesn't have the same recreational atmosphere as an aero club, but you receive instruction that is just as good; arguably better in some respects. The beauty of Ardmore airport as a whole is that there are many different organisations and aircraft available to fly on the field, so if you can afford it you can do your training at the flying school, but perhaps fly occasionally at the Aero Club when you just want to go for a flight for fun.

I'm a member at Auckland Aero Club as well, so if I could break it down in to the pros and cons of both, I would say this:

AFS:

Pros - Comprehensive training schedule from student to CPL + MEIR, possibility to progress to instructor rating, large fleet and plenty of available instructors, theory courses available throughout the year, student loan funding available, well known in the industry (inevitably you hear some bad things about them, but the reality is, many many ex-AFS people are now flying airliners, so obviously the airlines aren't prejudiced against them)

Cons - Not much fleet variation (all your flying for PPL and CPL will be on 172s), you do have to deal with people who are obviously not that interested in aviation but just there because it sounded like it would be a cool job, a few of the instructors have a bit of a "holier-than-thou" attitude.

AAC:

Pros - Varied fleet, regular club events, a much better atmosphere than AFS in that everyone who flies there is really keen on aviation, good facilities with a cafe right next door (and a bar open in the evenings!), all the instructors are really nice people.

Cons - No student loan funding available so you have to pay for all your flying out of your own pocket, not very many instructors (although they're usually not too busy), not quite such comprehensive theory courses

You didn't mention whether you are interested in just getting a PPL and flying recreationally, or actually looking at flying as a career, which ultimately I think is the biggest difference between AFS and AAC. If you just want to fly for fun, then AAC are far and away the better choice, but if you're wanting to train to be a professional pilot then AFS are the way to go, unless you have enough money to afford to do it all at AAC.

Hope that was helpful.

Cool thanks for that sorry it didnt cross my mind about metioning if i waned to fly as a reactional pilot or professionally. Im wanting to train to be a professional pilot

[scon]

I have done all my training at the Auckland Aero Club.

While the club does not have student loans we can do flying starter packs that get you to different levels that offer discounts over the usual rate. The club has 3 full time instructors plus an extra 4 on weekends and peak times. We hold full time PPL and CPL courses throughout the year plus part time courses as demand sees fit. In terms of times for flying weekends are usually busy but the week provides allot more space and instructor time and this is when most of the clubs full time students fly. The club environment is great, with current and ex pilots with airlines dating back to the 1940's there is an endless supply of knowledge of the aviation industry around. The club trips (South Island, 90 mile beech landings e.t.c) are a great way to build experience also.


The current fleet is

3x AA-1C
1x C152
1x Slingsby Firefly
1x C172S
1x R3000
1x BE-76 (twin_
1x P-68 (twin)

so a very varied fleet.


Regards, Scott

[travnz]

Thats a really good summary leo!!

[pilotgallagher01]

Ive heard a few negative things about AFS that has come up alot with discussions with people from the school and also a few things about CTC.
I don't want to ##### as every flying school has it's ups and downs and im not suggesting AFS or CTC is cr@p.
I aplogize if I sounded ofense towards AFS

[FlyingKiwi]

Regarding AFS instructors being "cocky assholes", a few of them might be, but it would be deeply unfair to tar them all with the same brush. One of them, for example, flies the DC-3 on weekends, so presumably he's not uninterested in aviation!

[ardypilot]

QUOTE

From what I have heard, lots of people have said ardmore flying school has more people than it can handle, lots of people from ardmore flying school have shifted to bayflight and couldnt believe how much flying per day they could do and how nice the instuctors were, AFS instuctors are apprently not interested in aviation and are just cocky assholes from what I have heard[/quote]
I'd be careful what you say Chris G, with the NZ aviation scene being so closely knit, and a number of AFS instructors being members of this site!

Seriously though Kris- I was in your exact position a year and a bit ago, asked the same question on various forums, went into interviews at various establishments, and the main thing I can share from this experience with you is that no matter who you talk to, they are always going to have a bias opinion of this own organisation (obviously), so I'll try my best to lay down the most un-bias opinion of what Ardmore has to offer, even though I'm an AFS student

AFS is the biggest flight school in the country, most amount of training aircraft, instructors and students. However, when you hear about the number of students, you must bear in mind that not all of these are full time, as many work full time also, so perhaps only fly 1 or 2 times a week. If you are a full time student like myself, depending on how many other students your instructor has (logic indicates that you'd choose one with a fewer students as possible to maximize his/her availability), you can get aircraft bookings 6/7 days per week for duel, or any appropriate available time when you reach solo stages. Out of the 30 or so people from my theory class, I'd say only 8 are actually regally flying, so that gives you a good indication of that ratio statistic. I've even (unofficially) heard that AFS hire more students than they have available slots, as there is an expected drop out rate. I can think of another 7 people from my class who left before the theory course ended.

As far as reputation goes- I think it depends on who you hear it from. I've heard both negative and positive opinions of AFS pilots from industry professionals- some saying that Emirates NZ won't even look at a CV if it has the letters AFS on it, yet I know of many people who have gone off to Eagle Air, Airwork, Air NZ (the pilot who I jumpseated to Fiji with went straight from the Duchess to the 737 right hand seat) and Qantas. For example, just in the last month my old meteorology lecturer left the school to fly Metroliners, so don't believe the hype!

I also think that the fact of this instructor personality perception being raised in such a big way is unnecessary- sure, when you meet a new large group of people, there will be some people you may dislike, but once you get to know them, opinions often change. Certain lecturers who seemed rather brash are actually completely different people to fly with, and I know I'm not alone in being able to testify to this opinion change. Even though we're not a club, AFS still have bbq's and pissups every now and then, and the student group and instructor group mingle well. There are a good mix of older experienced insturctors and younger C-cats who can talk to you and teach you on a peer to peer level. Your attitude that your enter your flying with will determine your success, so don't let negative internet rumors spoil that for ya!

On the other hand, AAC sounds like the utopian establishment if you are a casual flyer- being a club rather than a school, however, I preferred the option of always keeping current and flying regularly rather than distracting myself with a job and only getting airtime occasionally- this is a preference that will change depending on each persons lifestyle of course, but at the moment it suits me down to the ground, having roughly 1 hour airtime per day, time left over to study checks/procedures/maunovers, and the rest of the day to just hang around with my other university mates who have similar lengthed lectures! Money was also the over riding factor for me in my training choice, with AFS offering the student loan and AAC not, however, you will find AAC complete license fees work out much cheaper than AFS on paper- however thats a gamble that I'm hoping will end up as an insignificant decison when I'm rolling in the dollars 20 years from now in the left hand seat of a 777 (This is yet another factor that depends entirely on your own personal situation though)

Airline Flying Club is also worth a mention if your keen for the casual approach, as I know a few NZFF members can verify. The guys who work there (even the CFI) are real genuine friendly down to earth people, although they will do thier best to warn you against the woes of the 'big sausage factory' approach to training.

QUOTE

lots of people from ardmore flying school have shifted to bayflight and couldnt believe how much flying per day[/quote]
I think I've only heard of one person from here who went there after completing there theory, however, I know at least 2 people at AFS who have come up the other way from Bay Flight so I'm not really sure that's a relevant point. Also remember that with the size of AFS's fleet and amount of usage each aircraft gets, the mandatory 100 hour inspections come around rather quickly, so every now and then flights get cancelled due to being in maintenance- thats surley just a fact of life that is shared with any large flying school trying to make a profit

My advice would be to either go sit down and talk to some of the instructors, or set yourself up for some intro flights with these guys so you can form your own opinions. Lots of the stuff posted on forums like these is just hearsay- so don't believe everything you read (meaning I'm hypercritically wasting my time here haha). All the best!

Last edited by ardypilot on Tue Oct 27, 2009 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

ardypilot

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Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:01 am

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[Goose]

I started my training at AFS, so far what people have said on here is generally accurate.
I really enjoyed my time there although it was pretty full on. Did my theory courses there, from ppl right through to ifr. Once my exams were complete however i moved on to bayflight, Mostly due to personal reasosns like family. AFS is good because they have a brand new fleet and are pretty efficient when it comes to theory courses but when it comes to the flying, there are too many students for the number of planes they have available. The way it worked when i was there is each plane had four to five instructors assigned to it and each instructor had 10 or so students which means there was roughly 40-50 students to a plane and they all wanted to fly every week.

But in saying that, that was just my experience, and i didnt do any flying there so can't really comment. It depends on how you want to go through your training. The way i have done i have gotten through it alot faster than my ardmore class mates but alot of that has also been because of aucklands notoriously cr@p winter weather where as down in Tga we are lucky enough to have the Kaimai's so although you may not be able to do cross countries you can cruise around tga till your hearts content.

As for what Chris said, There are four of us, that i know of, who are now at bayflight who were once at AFS, im not naming any names but one did have a particularly bad experience at ardmore, ive never asked him the full details but from what i can tell it was a personality thing between him and some of the instructors up there. As for myself i really enjoyed my time there and still keep in touch with some of my instructors from AFS. Where ever you decide to go the main point is you'll get out of it what you put it and it'll only be as good as you make it!

[travnz]

QUOTE (Goose @ Oct 27 2009, 06:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Where ever you decide to go the main point is you'll get out of it what you put it and it'll only be as good as you make it!

This is an excellent point, remember that it isnt where you have done your training that matters. It is your attitude and work ethic that does!!!
Also, when you move on no one really cares where you did you training, it is where you have gained your experience! Your not going to go from the 172 straight into a Boeing, there are going to be steps in between. These are the ones that do count!!

As for the instructors at AFS the ones that I have dealt with are excellent, (leo's and my former instructor is now an A Cat, top bloke and excellent instructor) the idea is that while you are new at where ever you choose you take time to meet the instructors and find the one the suits you!


Travis

[pilotgallagher01]

I didn't mean to make it sound like a cr@p flying school as I'm sure it's far from that, I even considered applying fo the school a while back anyway...

Getting to th point, I'm also not suggesting all the instructors are cocky assholes at all, you always get the odd cocky kind in any orgnisation so sorry for making that sounds like they are all cocky..

I hope I haven't offended anyone from the school, being at the level looking for a training organisation myself you hear all sorts, but what I said above, it's come up a few times when talking to people an beingh told so I thought I woud share it since more than one person has discussed it with me.

Anyway not trying to say it's cr@p at all and sorry if I had caused offense, this was not my intentions

[FlyingKiwi]

No offense taken here; as I said in my previous post there are a few instructors at the flying school who do come off as a bit arrogant and not all that interested in their students, but they are a small minority. Unfortunately often it only takes a few bad eggs to make the whole organisation look bad, which is very unfair on the majority of instructors there who are just as friendly and helpful as those in any other establishment.

[krispilot]

cool thanks for you views guys. very appreiacted.

[krispilot]

Trolly metioned Ailine flying club. Had a look round the website and it seemed good. Was wondering if anyone had done their training (or parts of it) there?