Screenshot jaggies again, different question

[Chairman]

I've been playing around some more. Here's the current thinking ... My main monitor is a Philips 170B LCD screen, square format. Widescreen is good for the PS3 but not for a computer thank you.

I did some tests with the PMDG 747, the PMDG MD-11, and the Level D 767. Results were the same for all planes.

If I have the screen res set to 1280 x 1024 which is the monitors max resolution I get beautiful crisp panels but jaggies on the exterior models.




If I bring the screen res down to 1024x768 I lose the jaggies but the panels go all fuzzy.



Then it occurred to me that 1280x1024 is a 5:4 ratio display size while 1024 x 768 is a 4:3 ratio, and that resizing the exterior view may have been responsible for the jaggies.

So I tried 1280x960 which is a 4:3 ratio, and once again got a nice exterior and blurry panels. This suggests to me that I can either run a 5:4 screen and have good looking panels, or I can run a 4:3 screen and have good looking externals, or I need a newer more capable monitor.

Do others have this problem or is it just me, and does anyone have any practical suggestions ?

Thanks
Gary

[Naki]

Have you ticked anti-liasing either in the sim or enhancer if you have it?

[Chairman]

AntiAliasing is turned off in the sim, and on in Catalyst Control Centre. I've tried running antialiasing in the sim instead but it didn't seem to change anything.

Gary

[Adamski]

QUOTE (Chairman @ Dec 24 2009, 10:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AntiAliasing is turned off in the sim, and on in Catalyst Control Centre. I've tried running antialiasing in the sim instead but it didn't seem to change anything.

Looking at both sets of pics, I'm wondering if AA is actually working in either of the two cases. The apparent smoothing could be being produced by the video card up/down scaling to a non-native resolution for your monitor, rather than AA.

With your ATI control panel, are you able to try all the different AA modes?

I'd stick with the maximum *native* resolution of the monitor then try persuade FS to work with that.

[Alfashark]

I'll second what Adamski has said...

What frame-rates are you getting when you try these settings? You should experience a slight drop in frame rates when the AA is actually working - unless you've got a mega setup, if there isn't a drop when you turn the AA up high, it's not doing anything and needs further investigation.

For what it's worth, FS9 will settle at an average of 30fps on my system - 8600GT here, running Nhancer at combined 16xS, not sure what that equates to with ATI but it's one notch short of max AA
AA is on in the sim and anisoptropic is set to trilinear.

[Chairman]

A quick update ...

I've tried every possible combination of settings within the sim and Catalyst Control Centre, and here it is in a nutshell :

At 1280x1024 my CRT monitor will give me nice clean diagonals, but I can affect this by changing FS or CCC settings.
At 1280x1024 my LCD monitor will give me jagged diagonals, and nothing I can do makes the blindest bit of difference.
At 1280x960 my LCD monitor gives me clean diagonals but fuzzy text, and if I put some effort into it I can also get jagged diagonals.

If I'm running FS in windowed mode I can run it on the CRT screen and all is good. If I then move the window onto the LCD screen all is still good (lovely smooth diagonals) for a fraction of a second then it all turns to cr%). Likewise if I position the window so it straddles the two monitors, if most of the window is on the CRT the part of it that's on the LCD will be nice and smooth, and if I slide it a few pixels further so that most of it is on the LCD then the part on the CRT goes jaggy. So I know the LCD screen can do it, it just won't.

There's also the issue - which is probably most of the problem - that while control panel knows what the monitor is Catalyst Control Centre doesn't, and nothing I can do makes the blindest bit of difference to that either.





The video card is a Radeon x1950 Pro, the LCD screen is a Philips 170b6cb/75 and the CRT screen is an old Samsung clunker. I want to replace something (actually I want to kick the daylights out of something) but I don't know whether it should be the video card or the LCD screen. If you're thinking video card any suggestions are welcome, but must be AGP.

Any further thoughts from the gurus ?

Thanks
Gary

[Ian Warren]

Honestly , after all that work testing , i would look at dumping the entire pc , i went thru 6 month of testing , running the my pc's home and back to the shop ..whoops say thanx to our council daff ass twits frying of my 3 pc 's and doing a Homer Simpson.. 'i dont no' -'it was nt me ' .. Gary .. keep the old pc , use it as your comm's /dogbox .. buy new computer time . Im going to be a smart ass .. what is a CRT !

I think you get a PC use by date , overclock .. dont do .. just many Many different possible problems .

Nice thing is all PC parts brand new are very cheap today , example , 26in wide screen 1386 dollars now bout less than 500

[Adamski]

QUOTE (Chairman @ Dec 30 2009, 11:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's also the issue - which is probably most of the problem - that while control panel knows what the monitor is Catalyst Control Centre doesn't, and nothing I can do makes the blindest bit of difference to that either.



The video card is a Radeon x1950 Pro, the LCD screen is a Philips 170b6cb/75 and the CRT screen is an old Samsung clunker. I want to replace something (actually I want to kick the daylights out of something) but I don't know whether it should be the video card or the LCD screen. If you're thinking video card any suggestions are welcome, but must be AGP.

I dabbled with ATI cards for a while (way back) ... and found that their software+drivers were *vile*. The cards themselves weren't too bad (though a bit contrasty and over-saturated), but I had all sorts of issues with drivers. Googling around found hundreds of users with similar problems.

I gave up and went back to nVidia and have never regretted it.

Is there an updated ATI CP out there somewhere that could detect your LCD screen?

Whereabouts are you (geographically)? There may be someone local that could lend you an nVidia card for a while - to see if we can get your LCD to play.

[Chairman]

I'm using the most up to date drivers I could find for it - it's old enough that it's now in a legacy bundle so probably is time to revisit.

I'm in Henderson (West Auckland) but before I go borrowing cards I must have something laying around that's worth trying - heck, even take the card out altogether and give the onboard video a shot ... AGP cards don't look that expensive on trademe, if you go into AGP cards and filter by Auckland then search for nvidia there are only 5 cards over $100.

Ta for the ideas (and welcome to Insomniacs Anonymous)

Gary

[Adamski]

QUOTE (Chairman @ Dec 31 2009, 02:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm using the most up to date drivers I could find for it - it's old enough that it's now in a legacy bundle so probably is time to revisit.

I'm in Henderson (West Auckland) but before I go borrowing cards I must have something laying around that's worth trying - heck, even take the card out altogether and give the onboard video a shot ... AGP cards don't look that expensive on trademe, if you go into AGP cards and filter by Auckland then search for nvidia there are only 5 cards over $100.

Ta for the ideas (and welcome to Insomniacs Anonymous)

Gary

Hehe ... I'm just about to slope off to bed ...

I'm in Birkenhead, N.Shore ... so we're not too far apart. I could look through my rubbish box to see what old cards I have. I could either come to you with them, or you're welcome to bring your LCD over to me to see if it works on my FSX setup. Failing meeting up, I'm more than happy to pop a card in the post (if I can find one, that is!). I know I have an old GF4 Ti4200 in my old PC - but I think I had another card somewhere ...

[Snowman]

I used to have similar problems with some of the older ATI "X" series AGP cards as well.
I was told by an "old-timer", to uninstall the drivers, uninstall the catalyst software, restart the computer, and reinstall the drivers only, NOT the Calalyst software.
Even without the Catalyst software, there was still an ATI control panel for changing settings.
Damned if that didnt solve the problem !! Most bizarre,........... with the card drivers only, and NOT the Catalyst software, every thing worked fine !!
Just thought i'd mention this, in case it actually may help you ....................

My current card is an ATI-Radeon 2GB HD4870 X-2 PCI-E,....... I do have both the drivers and Catalyst software installed, with no problems,
unlike the older AGP "X" series cards from the past.

Lawrie.

[Chairman]

That's certainly worth a crack. I seem to recall seeing an option to download only the drivers, I'll try that.

Thanks
Gary

[Snowman]

QUOTE (Chairman @ Dec 31 2009, 03:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's certainly worth a crack. I seem to recall seeing an option to download only the drivers, I'll try that.

Thanks
Gary

I re-installed the driverset only from a genuine ATI CD-ROM i had that came with the cards. But the principle is the same.
I also found, that some of the newer driversets werent the best, and rolled back to older ones.
Mind you, the same can be said of some nVidea driversets as well..............

Lawrie.

[Chairman]

Oh my gosh, I think I may have cracked it ! Here's the sequence. This was spread over a day, but I think I can remember it all.

Step 1 - Swap monitor cables across the different video outputs to put the LCD screen onto the primary output after reading somewhere that that one had the best image quality.

Step 2 - Spend an increasingly panicky few minutes now that both monitors are dead

Step 3 - Hit the reset button on the computer, and start breathing again when both screens come alive. No difference to FS quality.

Step 4 - Turn off, remove the x1950 video card, plug one of the screens into the onboard VGA output, boot, download and install drivers for onboard VGA, reboot, no change to FS quality.

Step 5 - Seize x1950 in both hands, prepare to smash it on the edge of the desk, spot the "PowerColor" sticker on the enormous fan.

Step 6 - tentatively google "powercolor x1950 drivers"

Step 7 - first result takes me straight to a page on the PowerColor website where I can download drivers for the card. Not the bloody "archived generic old piece of cr@p" drivers from ATI, this is a card specific one from the card manufacturer.

Step 8 - Shut down, put the X1950 back in, boot, load up the bodgy old drivers. Even install the bodgy old CCC that comes as part of the download, on the grounds that it's the version that the manufacturer had in mind when they wrote the drivers.

Step 9 - Reboot, change to decent screen res, note that the new old CCC still thinks I'm using a default VGA monitor, snigger, fire up FS, make sure AA is turned off in the sim, change to spot view with diagonals like the steps in front of the Auckland Museum.

Step 10 - load up the bodgy old CCC and change AA from "app controlled" to "on". Put mouse cursor over the OK button, close eyes, click.

Step 11 - gasp in dismay - it's even worse !

Step 12 - while laughing semi hysterically, flick through CCC options and find one that gives a few preset configs ranging from best performance to best quality. Click on Best Quality.

Step 13 - stop in mid semi-hysterical laugh. Jaggies have suddenly disappeared, and I can turn them on and off by fiddling with the CCC settings. Victory ? Not sure ytet, I still have to get my other screen back up and running, but it's a heck of a good place to start from.

[Adamski]

Great news!!

QUOTE (Chairman @ Jan 1 2010, 09:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Step 2 - Spend an increasingly panicky few minutes now that both monitors are dead
Step 5 - Seize x1950 in both hands, prepare to smash it on the edge of the desk ...

Hehe ... been there ... horrible moment

It seems to confirm my view about ATI drivers. Pretty good cards, but let down by the software. Glad you appear to have it sorted! I'll just look at your other thread!