learning to fly

[dienamics]

OK so my farther who has his PPL has been pestering me for years now to get my PPL and look at going for my commercial. I was just wondering if anyone on here has A) Gone for their PPL, whats involved, costs, time etc and B) Has anyone then gone onto get their commercial license? How long does it take, costs blah blah.

Went for my first trail flight yesterday and Im torn between jumping ship to go work in Australia or stay in Whangarei (NZWR) and going the hold hog with flying.

[creator2003]

Of course you will get a heap of answers to this post as alot of guys here have done or are still doing parts of there licences ,but before that you can do a search found up in the top right of the forum here ,type in PPL etc ..

heres one post i found in the NZ aviation topic http://nzff.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10826


mike

[dienamics]

Cheers mike,

Seems like its more about training in Auckland and who to train with and who not to.

Like I said I would be looking to do my PPL training at least up at NZWR as I live about 2 minutes walk from the strip and Quantum aviation would be my choice.

I have a pretty good idea of whats involved with the PPL - around 70 hours, written exams, flight exam etc. But the commercial Im a little hazy on. I know its 200 hours, but how does this work? you have to do 200 hours on your PPL before you can get your CPL? That would be hella expeno and take for ever!

[HardCorePawn]

The "official" word is here: http://www.caa.govt.nz/rules/ACs.htm

You want AC61 for Pilot Licenses and Ratings, specifically 61-3 for PPL and 61-5 for CPL.

A "brief" summary is below...

PPL:

Bare minimum = 40 hours for restricted, (ie. No Cross Country) 50 hours with Cross Country privileges.
Realistic Minimums = 60+ Especially now that they have brought in slow flight and are soon to bring in "mountain flying"

Of this, at least 15 hours must be solo, and 15 hours dual. The rest is up to you/your instructor.

Note that if you want night flying privileges, you need 5 hours night (2 dual, 2 solo).

Cross Country is minimum 10 hours, and split into 3 parts - Elementary Nav, Basic Nav, Advanced Nav. (Check Appendix II in AC61-3) You need 1 hour Dual, 1 Solo for Elementary. 2 dual/2 Solo for Basic and 2 dual/2 solo for Advanced.

You also require a written exam credit (which means you need to have passed ALL of your PPL exams) to do cross countries now.

Reminder: These are all MINIMUMS


CPL:

6 Exams... Human Factors, Air Law, Principles of Flight and Performance, Air Tech, Nav, Met...

Bare Minimum: 200 Hours Total Time. Depending on how you do your training (and how much private flying you do), you might be very close to this, or you might be over by a good 10 to 20 hours.

Note: If you do a "full course of approved training", you can do a CPL with 150 hours. I believe the only place that does this is Massey (maybe CTC??)

Of that 200 hours, 100 must be PinC (Pilot in Command).

You must have 30 hours cross-country, 20 of which is the CPL cross country training syllabus (Appendix II of AC61-5). The cross country syllabus must be completed within a single 12 month period.

You must have 10 hours night flying (4 dual, 5 PinC with at least 10 TO's and 10 Landings).

You must have 10 hours instrument time (minimum of 5 Dual in an actual aircraft... you can do 5 hours in an approved synthetic flight trainer)


For most, the hardest part, is getting up to 100hours PinC... as the CPL training involves LOTs of dual flying. Also, getting the requisite night flying experience. I got my PPL, did lot's of PinC flying about the place and scenic flights with friends etc so I got those fairly easily. Also, I really like night flying (have even done a couple of night cross countries up to Whangarei and some down to Hamilton)

The cross country training gets you lots of hours pretty quickly tho... you're doing like 4hour flights as the flights need to be greater than 200nm's with 1 being at least 300nm's. It actually pays to do this both Dual and Solo as you will need the solo one to get an instructor rating.


In terms of costs... a PPL these days is somewhere in the vicinity of about $12k to $15k... depending on various factors like where you train and type of aircraft etc... obviously learning in a 172 is going to be more expensive that in a 152 or tomahawk or other 2 seater due to running costs etc.

CPL, I don't really know, because there are soooo many variables (and I don't really want to know how much I've spent in the last year or so )

You can always look at going to one of the student loan funded organisations...

You can do it via the NMIT courses... http://www.nmit.ac.nz/schools/aviation/avi...nproviders.aspx

or you can goto Massey. I believe that Southern Wings are also NZQA certified and qualify for student loans as well.

If you are thinking about the student loan thing, you should start there as their courses are really structured around starting "ab initio"... and it can be a hassle for them and you if you want to start off with a PPL. It can be difficult for them to restructure the course and costs if you already have flight experience, so you end up "wasting" money redoing training you already have etc.


I suggest you read the PPL and CPL AC61's... then go and have a chat with the various training organisations you're thinking of doing your training with.

If you want to know anything else, just ask


cheers,
HCP

[dienamics]

Wow. Awesome response.

Thanks heaps, yeah I might go up the road after lunch and see if I can have a chat with someone.

[dienamics]

One more quick question for all of you in the no.

Massey does a Bachelor course for flight training which includes PPL and CPL? Being that they are a University I imagine it possible to get a student loan in order to complete all the training?

From what I have heard most if not all private training schools do not offer student loans, which is a pain for me. Not that I cant pay, its just going to take me a great deal longer to achieving my goals.

[HardCorePawn]

Yeah... Massey sure do offer Studly loans... despite their somewhat "checkered" history (which I have some personal experience of)... I hear good things about them these days... and I know one of the current instructors...

they're in the process of upgrading their fleet, so they have some pretty new and flash equipment...

for sure... check them out...

[Splitpin]

Some good advise from the wise ones....but, Im not sure about your age etc....have you considered the Air force (whats left of it) that way you GET paid to learn the lot.
Just a thought

Good luck

Cheers

[victor_alpha_charlie]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Feb 12 2010, 05:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some good advise from the wise ones....but, Im not sure about your age etc....have you considered the Air force (whats left of it) that way you GET paid to learn the lot.
Just a thought

Good luck

Cheers

The Air Force would be awesome, I'm not sure about anyone else but to be honest I'm somewhat doubtful of my chances of getting in. They only take on a few people a year out of hundreds of applicants so unless you're the very best academic and have a flawless personality your chances are probably pretty slim.

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Feb 12 2010, 07:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Air Force would be awesome, I'm not sure about anyone else but to be honest I'm somewhat doubtful of my chances of getting in. They only take on a few people a year out of hundreds of applicants so unless you're the very best academic and have a flawless personality your chances are probably pretty slim.

Think about it anyway.....and trust me ....i spent many years there and a "flawless personality" is not required.....just a personality will do. I understand what your saying.....but have a look at anyway.......they have courses that will educate you (Uni) and in your down time start flying training......at the end of it you become a pilot officer....and away you go.I know its easy to say.....but think about it. There is also (as i did) the chance to transfer (i think its still on offer) to the RAF, or RAAF.....there was a scheme to do time with the USAF at one stage.
The training is top notch, and you can take it anywhere......sorry to sound like a b****y recruiting poster.....just think about it.......they need you !!

[victor_alpha_charlie]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Feb 12 2010, 07:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Think about it anyway.....and trust me ....i spent many years there and a "flawless personality" is not required.....just a personality will do. I understand what your saying.....but have a look at anyway.......they have courses that will educate you (Uni) and in your down time start flying training......at the end of it you become a pilot officer....and away you go.I know its easy to say.....but think about it. There is also (as i did) the chance to transfer (i think its still on offer) to the RAF, or RAAF.....there was a scheme to do time with the USAF at one stage.
The training is top notch, and you can take it anywhere......sorry to sound like a b****y recruiting poster.....just think about it.......they need you !!

Oh yeah for sure I can see what you're saying, I'll definitely apply, just being realistic to avoid disappointment haha

[dienamics]

Yeah I Looked at the airforce and I think it would be really good to get paid to learn etc, but like victor_alpha_charlie said it is very hard to get in. I was in the process last year of getting all my grades up in order to apply for avionics (as a start) but they cut there in-takes back from 3 a year to one. So being realistic I decided to flag it. I'm 26 by the way.

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (dienamics @ Feb 12 2010, 08:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah I Looked at the airforce and I think it would be really good to get paid to learn etc, but like victor_alpha_charlie said it is very hard to get in. I was in the process last year of getting all my grades up in order to apply for avionics (as a start) but they cut there in-takes back from 3 a year to one. So being realistic I decided to flag it. I'm 26 by the way.

Sorry, i didnt mean to go on at you....sadly i think the RNZAF are now too selective, given their present status, but i suppose their hands are tied.
Anyway, you guys seem to have your heads screwed on the right way, Im sure what ever you do will work out well. I'll give up my recruiting drive and stick to posting odd looking planes on the other forum......good luck guys.

[dienamics]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Feb 12 2010, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, i didnt mean to go on at you....sadly i think the RNZAF are now too selective, given their present status, but i suppose their hands are tied.
Anyway, you guys seem to have your heads screwed on the right way, Im sure what ever you do will work out well. I'll give up my recruiting drive and stick to posting odd looking planes on the other forum......good luck guys.

Haha no worries mate. To be honest I would love to join, and I may even look at doing something like Avionics or even Coms just to get in. I'm guessing they might subsidize my flight training...??

Who knows. Regardless its going to be along road to get my wings, but it will all be worth it.

[2fst4u]

QUOTE (dienamics @ Feb 13 2010, 09:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Haha no worries mate. To be honest I would love to join, and I may even look at doing something like Avionics or even Coms just to get in. I'm guessing they might subsidize my flight training...??

Who knows. Regardless its going to be along road to get my wings, but it will all be worth it.

Subsidise? Try free.

Do comms, that's what I'm signed up for

[dienamics]

QUOTE (2fst4u @ Feb 13 2010, 05:08 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Subsidise? Try free.

Do comms, that's what I'm signed up for

Hah. same