Trainee pilots restricted

[HamiltonWest]

Trainee pilots restricted
Aspiring pilots may soon have limited access to taxpayer subsidies for their studies
Tertiary Education Minister Steven Joyce is picking through the student loan scheme, as the Government moves to cut costs. On the hit list: students over 55 and pilot training courses - both are areas where loans have ended up being written off.
Full Item Here:
http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/newsdetail1.asp?storyid=194766

[connor]

That's not going to help the airlines. I have a friend who is in Boeing 737-800 type instructor working for Pac Blue and they are struggling to get pilots. I can imagine other airlines are in the same boat.
Every time I go flying with him he hands me a "How to Become an Airline Pilot" flyer from the reception desk at the Canterbury Aero Club.

[benwynn]

Although I'm very lucky to be apart of this scheme, its far too expensive for the NZ Government to afford. Half the kids in my intake have never even been in a light aircraft before, but some how have this flaming passion for flying.

As for a pilot shortage, sure, some Airlines require pilots, but there's definently no pilot shortage globally, and it's most likely only going to get worse in the next few decades to come.

[deaneb]

Just goes to show you how much the training institutions care. They aren't at all worried about where you end up, they just want bums on seats and your money!
ANybody can learn to fly with enough time and money, but not everybody is destined to get a good job. What's needed is a better selection policy and thats where the airlines could help, put potential pilots through a selection scheme first and weed the weak links out.

[chopper_nut]

This is nothing new. When I was instructing at NAC, we had to work out where former students ended up, the vast majority, of helicopter pilots at least had ended up working in the industry. The list of fixed wing pilots was quite the opposite however. Deane is quite correct, far to many muppets get into the schools. On my course, there were three that come to mind and thank god none of them are involved with the industry. I know people who had to sit their PPL six, thats right, six times. You would have thought alarm bells would have started to ring. SOME schools really dont care as long as they get your, or the governments, money. The idea of self funding up to PPL is one that I have believed is correct for some time.

[ardypilot]

I hope this will weed out a lot of the guys who just sign up for it because they can, and don't really have any particular interest in aviation. Granted there are plenty of very enthusiastic and committed people who've benefited from the student loan scheme, quite a few of us here on NZFF for example, but it seems like for every one of us there are two or three more who don't know a 172 from a Jetranger and expect to be right hand seat in a 747 in a few years' time.

This might also cause a few of the larger training organisations around the place to start treating their students like people and not walking dollar signs.

QUOTE

Mr Joyce says one approach would be to get potential pilots to pay their own way to a private licence, and then apply for a loan for their commercial licence.[/quote]

I'm glad he's considering that because that's exactly what I was suggesting to a few of the other aero club people the other day would be a good idea - keep the dream alive for the dedicated guys but discourage the ones that just want the fancy uniform.

Last edited by FlyingKiwi on Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

[ardypilot]

Yeah, I know guys who have taken 2 years + to get their PPL, and heard of a guy who didn't solo till something like 70+ hours... then when he did, he pranged the aircraft on landing. You would really think the instructors would have said something like "hold on a minute, I don't think this guy is quite cut out for flying. I'll tell him to stop wasting his money".

QUOTE

This might also cause a few of the larger training organisations around the place to start treating their students like people and not walking dollar signs.[/quote]
Hear hear. I get pretty frustrated at my organisiation sometimes for the way I get palmed off to other instructors every so often. It's hard to get good consistent flying when you keep getting bumped onto different people with different teaching methods.

I've actually heard that a certain big flying school take on more students than they have aircraft/instructors available because they know there is a certain student drop out rate who won't pass the theory exams. That's real foul play if you ask me. I'd say about only about 3/4 of my theory class are still flying currently.

[H500Fan]

I'm about 2 weeks away from starting my PPL and CPL in Christchurch, I've found the selection process not exactly a gimee like I had assumed. I think as mentioned perhaps the heli schools are different to fixed wing as in they do get jobs after because the bulk of the students have a general love of choppers. Unlike fixed wing to some (not all) seems to be just "something to do" when they leave school.
I have the money to do my PPL and think its a great idea in the future to make it a non student loan area. However I'm not going to put it into the flying as I want some money at the end to do ratings and then relocate to a job after finishing, what I have left after that will go on my student loan.
My question is, lets put the same guy/girl in 2 scenarios:
Student loan start to finish on a structured course
or; Pays his/her way over 4-5 years doing 1-2 hours per week and self studied.
Who comes out the better pilot?? Forget the part where they've worked hard for it and appreciate it, who's actually better sitting in the machine at crunch time?

They have also introduced 3 business papers now which give you a diploma in aviation, instead of the tertiary board seeing no actual qualification achieved after passing your cpl check.

cheers
Jamie

[benwynn]

I certainly agree with more demanding intake requirements. Sure, I may have done just as well/worse/better on the tests for the intake (maths etc) but my Enthusiasm, and aviation knowledge would go a lot further than most. Restricting age I think is a very good idea too. I have some older gentleman in my intake, and it just simply isnt fair. Spending tax payer dollars on a whim at that age really isn't fair. If they were that keen on flying in the first place, they would have made the move straight out of school, rather than jolting off overseas or working around the globe (particular reference).

[J7G]

How old is older?

[benwynn]

Not sure of his exact age, but he's in his 40's the particular guy im talking about.

[J7G]

Roger. Some people just don't know, though, until someone introduces them personally and up close to it. Mind you, 40s is pushing it a bit I would say.

[AndrewJamez]

Ha thats funny because I know a guy who is 46 and just sold his buisness to fund himself through CTC. He's missed the 1st intake this year already because his colestrol was way up and need a re-examination a few months down the track. Never flown a plane before or never had any interest in aviaition up untill now. The thing is though everything else with him checks out and he is ready to start as soon as his medicle comes through. I think he's gonna find it hard. I do know that if he gets through, he wants to buy my PC and set him up with FSX and all, so him been inducted means I get knew PC. So i'm split down the middle on weather to encourage him or give him a reality check. Not that he would listen.

[towerguy]

easy on the 'old' part eh guys
some of us fit that criteria and are pushing you guys around quite nicely
and if they can get the medical and the licence then why shouldn't they get the chance to fly - the love of it isn't restricted to the young and in a lot of cases they have a wealth of experience to draw on when the brown stuff starts hitting the fan - quite often that background 'life experience' can make a big difference in decision making. (note: quite often - not 'always')

rant over
cheers

[benwynn]

Get a loan for your PPL then. I don't see it being fair for 'older' men and women who will most likely never make it to Jets, the whole reason the funding was introduced in the first place. I doubt the scheme was introduced due to the lack of 185 pilots or lack of flying instructors.

[cowpatz]

In the "good Ole days" there were no such things as student loans. If Mummy or Daddy didn't help out then you did it the old fashioned way and scrimped and saved, begged, borrowed and stole. No Ipods, flash cars or gelled hair with the latest thread bare jeans.
Of all the pilots I have trained over the years the best ones were those that did it themselves with the exception of attending theory courses. The sacrifice, eagerness and determination were a culling process and acceptance tests in themselves. GA is a hard slog and nothing gets handed to you on a plate.
Flying schools and training establishments have been ripping off the student and taxpayer for years. Why not get the student to fund themselves to the PPL stage and then provide measured support in the form of a loan after that, based on certain criteria? The failure rate is high and there is a tendency for establishments to milk students along when they should have been "terminated" (horrible word but the reality) at the early stages. There is no cross credit for aviation qualifications and to not make the grade and then have to repay tens of thousands of dollars is hard.
A balance has to be reached whereby anyone can give it a go but only those that show real aptitude and attitude get any Taxpayer assistance.

Alongside this rant from Steve Joyce is also an inquiry in progress by the CAA into NZ flight training. Hopefully the tree will get shaken and something good will come of it.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (cowpatz @ Apr 19 2011,8:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In the "good Ole days" there were no such things as student loans. If Mummy or Daddy didn't help out then you did it the old fashioned way and scrimped and saved, begged, borrowed and stole.

not to mention aviation scholarships , when the hell they invented I missed out

[J7G]

Where do I sign up for the iPods, jeans and flash cars? Also, how does one get them through their student loans? Curious minds want to know!

[chopper_nut]

The student load scheme changed before I got there. It used to be that you got the cash and so people ended up buying cars and things. Now you get course related costs of $1000 each year.

[J7G]

That changed 10+ years ago IIRC.