Trainee pilots restricted

[benwynn]

QUOTE (dbcunnz @ Jun 1 2011,6:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

2. Respect all other members and visitors to the forum -- no personal attacks, insults or derogatory comments;

That is where it looked like it could have been going

Just to confirm.

QUOTE

This gentleman who is in his 40's that is currently training would have a far better chance than you at getting into a jet position[/quote]

[jd1]

QUOTE (benwynn @ Jun 1 2011,8:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just to confirm.

I must apologise, I wasn't meant to cause offence to anyone and I'm sorry if I did.
I was just pointing out that just because someone is older than you in your intake does not necessarily mean they are going to have a smaller chance of flying jets.
With the rising cost in aviation it would be a shame to see the current loan scheme scrapped but unfortunately that may be a reality in the years to come due to the current economic climate and I hate to say it but the current government that is wanting to sell its share of Air NZ isn't exactly helping. I remember when I did my license it took a lot of years of part-time employment to pay for it with no offer of a loan mind you those days of low cost flying are well and truly gone
Good luck with your flying and I hope you get many years of enjoyment (and employment) from it.

[Syncop8r]

When I was self-funding my PPL it was taking me ages because of the cost, student loan has got me through the process a lot quicker. Each lesson involved a bit of revision because of the time between lessons.

Strange hearing about these people that had no interest in aviation until they joined the course - in my intake everyone is nuts about flying, in fact its the older guys who are the most passionate. Also I have yet to see many people failing - only one or two self-funded international students.
I don't see how it "isn't fair" for older people to be eligible for student loans. If one is in their 40s then they may have 20 years of flying to look forward to. Generally these older folk have also been paying plenty of tax for the last 20 or so years - perhaps they "deserve" a student loan more than younger people?

I don't see the business papers that are now required for the Diploma in Aviation Science as being at all useful. Much rather have a C-Cat.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Syncop8r @ Jun 2 2011,9:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see how it "isn't fair" for older people to be eligible for student loans. If one is in their 40s then they may have 20 years of flying to look forward to.

Seriously - end off the day , no airline wants to look at a mid life person unless already has the hours , possible chance to do a 'David Bannerman' mistake .. my machine experience learnt people the not to dos and don't dos - people lost fingers - broken limbs , we have so many experience real timers here , same O - its just the industry and the biggest thing is were you are and your life set.

[Naki]

I read about a guy who got his licence later in life (40s IIRC) and went on to fly for Air Alantique (the UK vintage airline) flying DC-6s and DC-3s and other interesting types...he was a truck driver before that. Unfortunately it was his orbtiuary I was reading -I think he died of cancer but he still got 20 or so years of good flying in.

There are one or two topdressing pilots still flying in their 70s and then there is Bryan Cox who was an instructor in his 70s

[Syncop8r]

Perhaps its because many people can't afford to fly until later in life? Self-funding a CPL when you're 18 would be difficult... PPL do-able.

[SA227]

I know of many middle aged fellows who have gone on to be airline pilots. Interestingly, most were policemen in a former life

[Ian Warren]

Now that would be handy .... Ladies and Gentlemen - well come aboard NZ911 , all tourists please disembark now as your driver is a Policeman

[victor_alpha_charlie]

I'm currently 2 months into a student loan funded course, and like some am struggling to understand why we are forced into doing NMIT business papers. The only reason I can think of is so we have a 'back-up' if we lose our medical or similar, but this still doesn't make sense to me- is there actually a decent job that a 'Diploma in Aviation' will help me to obtain? Didn't think so.

[A185F]

Thank goodness. About time. It's all about the sausage factories making their monies, they are just selling their product, they don'g give a shite about thier students especially what happens to them after. It's amazing the amount of students who get sucked in, spend a fortune through a student loan and then not get a job, fall out of the industry and never end up getting back in. It's very real and it happens.

As for a pilot shortage...... bollocks. If the airlines want pilots, they'll get em. There are huge numbers of unemployed pilots around, even highly experienced ones. You only have to look at the US aviation industry... granted it is getting back on its feet. Over the last couple of years I've lost two airline jobs due recession etc etc and even spent long periods not flying at all. Now back in GA, couldn't be happier.

If some one really wants to fly, become a pilot, have a career doing something they love, then they will do their homework and work out the best way and make it happen. Where there's a will, there's a way. Those guys then show, they want and deserve to be in the industry

[Naki]

Where are you flying now Mr185?

[A185F]

Hawkes bay. Unfortunately not with the beloved 185 Did spend most of summer hooning round in one though good things come to an end though...

[redkiwi]

QUOTE (Syncop8r @ Jun 2 2011,9:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Perhaps its because many people can't afford to fly until later in life? Self-funding a CPL when you're 18 would be difficult... PPL do-able.

Who says you have to do it when you're 18, do it when the money allows. Straight out of school I was able to earn $17/hr and do a 40hr week, with a bit of experience that went up to $20/hr. Even when I was studying I could still bring in around $14-16/hr working at the airport or doing other customer service or aviation related jobs.

I'm now 24 and saving to pay for my CPL outright (missed out on the air force for the second time), I'm lucky enough to have a job in the mining sector in Australia bringing in a six figure salary such that I will have enough for CPL + MEIR and a few extras by this time next year, but the point is that even in a normal job, a dedicated person could realistically pay for their CPL by around age 22-23 by which time they would have gained more life experience and be more employable, and not to mention free to work overseas without a $80-100k student loan over their heads.

Lets face it, usually your first job with a fresh CPL is going to involve a lot of customer service and baggage loading, so why not get some experience before hand?

[Ian Warren]

Well done redkiwi , many can say i wish i had the chance - many also are in a position with little chance and course today,s world opens doors , but its to get that work position and place in time for the job , and if not own your place or have rich parents .

[ZKBJC]

QUOTE (victor_alpha_charlie @ Jun 7 2011,9:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm currently 2 months into a student loan funded course, and like some am struggling to understand why we are forced into doing NMIT business papers. The only reason I can think of is so we have a 'back-up' if we lose our medical or similar, but this still doesn't make sense to me- is there actually a decent job that a 'Diploma in Aviation' will help me to obtain? Didn't think so.

I and others from this years first intake are in the same boat, we are forced to do NMIT business papers we don't want to do. Guys in our course simply don't care, they don't even turn up to exams, there online study is a joke, NMIT don't even know how busy us students are trying to do pilot theory!. A 'Dipolma in Aviation' will give you a nice piece of paper with your name on it, which in the African/Aussie/PNG etc outback, is only really good for wiping your arse with

[H500Fan]

QUOTE (ZKBJC @ Jul 1 2011,8:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I and others from this years first intake are in the same boat, we are forced to do NMIT business papers we don't want to do. Guys in our course simply don't care, they don't even turn up to exams, there online study is a joke, NMIT don't even know how busy us students are trying to do pilot theory!. A 'Dipolma in Aviation' will give you a nice piece of paper with your name on it, which in the African/Aussie/PNG etc outback, is only really good for wiping your arse with

Are they being held back on their flying? can you go ahead with ppl/cpl and fail the paper? I'm in the same situation, nobody knows whats going on!

[huff3r]

QUOTE (H500Fan @ Jul 2 2011,8:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are they being held back on their flying? can you go ahead with ppl/cpl and fail the paper? I'm in the same situation, nobody knows whats going on!

If you fail more than half your papers you wont be able to get the student loan for the "second year" of the course. I'm assuming your course is the same as the NMIT/CTC course and goes for about 1.5yrs?

[A2BOK]

QUOTE (ZKBJC @ Jul 1 2011,8:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I and others from this years first intake are in the same boat, we are forced to do NMIT business papers we don't want to do. Guys in our course simply don't care, they don't even turn up to exams, there online study is a joke, NMIT don't even know how busy us students are trying to do pilot theory!. A 'Dipolma in Aviation' will give you a nice piece of paper with your name on it, which in the African/Aussie/PNG etc outback, is only really good for wiping your arse with

A short sighted view on things. I worked in Africa (hence the user name for those who get the reference) and while extra pieces of paper may not have landed me a job, they certainly helped in staying in the bloody country! The immigration department there loved any extra bit of paper to go along in support of your work permit application. I got my permits with no issue, some others had problems. Only anecdotal evidence I realise.

The other thing and if your wanting to work in New Zealand I think this is more relevant. Air NZ and the jet fleet when interviewing have for as long as I have been around, awarded mysterious points allocations to various things to give you an overall score and rank you according to others. ANY tertiary qualification (even a Diploma in Aviation only good for wiping you arse with) will see you get more points than someone else. To a point this is irrelevant because effectively during time of low movement, you need further tertiary qualifications or significant other factors to bump your points up to a high enough level to trigger an interview for yourself. What is even more relevant is that the Link carriers are moving more towards mainline's way of thinking and candidates are going to be scored and ranked. This is to be based on both flying (licences and experience) and non-flying (Tertiary quals whatever they happen to be, life/work experience etc).

Not having the sense to do four comparatively easy papers now may ultimately not cause you any issues downstream or it may prevent you from getting the job or fleet you would prefer. There remain plenty of options out there and in the future as and we know the industry is cyclic with little movement some years and things going hell for leather other years. When Air NZ's new training scheme is rolled out and the new 'National Diploma in Aviation' introduced much of my post becomes surpuflious. One of the reasons Air NZ has become involved again in flight training is due to the government's belief that all these people who have not fully completed their Diploma's have effectively dropped out and 'failed' dispite repeated pushes from the NMIT and the like to improve completion rate. I will say this for certain, the new Air NZ based programme through the five providors will have much stricter progression criteria and those not meeting the grade will be exited much sooner than has happened in the past.

Happy productive study and training everyone.

[ZKBJC]

QUOTE (H500Fan @ Jul 2 2011,8:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are they being held back on their flying? can you go ahead with ppl/cpl and fail the paper? I'm in the same situation, nobody knows whats going on!

Well I am one of those people who are trying to do NMIT papers. And in a few weeks we shall see what the out come is for those who didn't do the essay or turn up to exams. Only hold back I've heard is your only allocated 100hours a year? But even then some guys have complained to NMIT and have been given there full lot of hours! I'm not saying that business papers are cr@p, but it should be an option if we want to do them or not.

[ZKBJC]

QUOTE (A2BOK @ Jul 2 2011,10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A short sighted view on things. I worked in Africa (hence the user name for those who get the reference) and while extra pieces of paper may not have landed me a job, they certainly helped in staying in the bloody country! The immigration department there loved any extra bit of paper to go along in support of your work permit application. I got my permits with no issue, some others had problems. Only anecdotal evidence I realise.

The other thing and if your wanting to work in New Zealand I think this is more relevant. Air NZ and the jet fleet when interviewing have for as long as I have been around, awarded mysterious points allocations to various things to give you an overall score and rank you according to others. ANY tertiary qualification (even a Diploma in Aviation only good for wiping you arse with) will see you get more points than someone else. To a point this is irrelevant because effectively during time of low movement, you need further tertiary qualifications or significant other factors to bump your points up to a high enough level to trigger an interview for yourself. What is even more relevant is that the Link carriers are moving more towards mainline's way of thinking and candidates are going to be scored and ranked. This is to be based on both flying (licences and experience) and non-flying (Tertiary quals whatever they happen to be, life/work experience etc).

Not having the sense to do four comparatively easy papers now may ultimately not cause you any issues downstream or it may prevent you from getting the job or fleet you would prefer. There remain plenty of options out there and in the future as and we know the industry is cyclic with little movement some years and things going hell for leather other years. When Air NZ's new training scheme is rolled out and the new 'National Diploma in Aviation' introduced much of my post becomes surpuflious. One of the reasons Air NZ has become involved again in flight training is due to the government's belief that all these people who have not fully completed their Diploma's have effectively dropped out and 'failed' dispite repeated pushes from the NMIT and the like to improve completion rate. I will say this for certain, the new Air NZ based programme through the five providors will have much stricter progression criteria and those not meeting the grade will be exited much sooner than has happened in the past.

Happy productive study and training everyone.

I'm not bagging the NMIT papers, it should be something that we choose to do. Yes it looks good for Air NZ but when you have fresh CPL with minimum IF they aint going to touch you, so its pointless doing them straight away, later down the track then yeah it would be good to do them. Another thing is try doing your 6 CPL subjects + 3 IF subjects, plus flying and ground work and you have very little time to study the "four comparatively easy papers". Are you currently doing the papers?