AirNZ 733s - the exit begins?

[deeknow]

Oh dear, and so it begins, the first of the 733s is officially being parted out for spares by the looks...
http://mrcaviation.blogspot.com/2011/09/sad-end.html

[Ian Warren]

History and common sence out the window , be interesting to see how long a ARBUST has a major incident for the airline in NZ to say ... boy wish we had not done that , should have stuck with Boeing .

[AirNewZealandA320]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Sep 17 2011,4:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

History and common sence out the window , be interesting to see how long a ARBUST has a major incident for the airline in NZ to say ... boy wish we had not done that , should have stuck with Boeing .

Honestly... ^^ a load of utter rubbish.

[Ian Warren]

yeah yeah , i no , i no you just don't want to hear the truth

[AirNewZealandA320]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Sep 17 2011,5:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yeah yeah , i no , i no you just don't want to hear the truth

No you just dont want to understand aviation.

[scon]

Latest I heard around the traps was gone by 2015. Only people that this really disadvantages the the boys and girls in the RHS and maybe some in the LHS of a 73 who don't have the seniority for an equal position on the A320. So it will be back to the long haul airline they go. Besides that, meh I'm not an Airbus fan but the A320 makes operational sense, no point in having 2 different sims, plus all the extra check and training flight crew required for 2 separate fleets in such a small airline.

[deeknow]

I've got a soft spot for the 7-3s, but hell, from the punters point of view the 320 kicks ass in the comfort stakes.
I know its not a big difference in diamater but that little bit of extra room seems to make all the difference

[Nzeddy]

Give one to a museum! Tauranga would be great!!!!!!!!

[connor]

QUOTE (Nzeddy @ Sep 18 2011,1:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Give one to a museum! Tauranga would be great!!!!!!!!

Give one to me! I've always liked the idea of a home cockpit.

[cowpatz]

QUOTE (AirNewZealandA320 @ Sep 17 2011,6:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No you just dont want to understand aviation.

Aviation is not all about getting the best aircraft for the job. The 737 cannot be beaten as far as operating in the domestic NZ environment.
One issue is that the A320 cannot be turned around fast enough domestically. Because of this an extra aircraft needs to be added into the mix....not a cheap fix.
I don't think the sim issue is too much of a problem as with the projected numbers a second A320 sim will most likely be needed anyway.
There are of course efficiency gains to made by having the one type rating instead of two and this lowers the training costs considerably.
At the end of the day Boeing could not match the Airbus deal and that is really all there is to it.

Interesting to see that Boeing is not going to change the essential 737 design, instead they will re-engine it and call it the 737MAX.
To me this is going to be a big mistake. For a start we wont see it until 2015 to 2017. The promises being made now are all based on being able to achieve
the quoted efficiency gains (the engine isn't even built yet...it is all theory based). Track records with respects to these promised efficiency gains have always been over hyped. By then the 737 will be a very old airframe. Why not introduce the plastic fuse like the 787 I wonder?
Also the undercarriage is too short and this severely limits engine options. To increase the height would require a complete new wing/fuse combo..
Of course there are efficiencies to be gained by using existing tooling (for both production and customer use) and parts etc but to my way of thinking they should really be looking to something like a scaled down 787. With Airbus offering the NEO now I believe that the Boeing offering will be too little and way too late. Room for Embraer to increase it's market share perhaps.

[AlisterC]

QUOTE

from the punters point of view the 320 kicks ass in the comfort stakes[/quote]
Have to agree with that.
The 733 will be kept flying in NZ skies for a long time to come just only in the dark

[huff3r]

They should list a few on trademe .

I'll take one as a sleepout .

[AlisterC]

Whatever aircraft Air NZ/Jetstar/Qantas can choose to make travelling cheaper for me, will get my vote. I'll be sad to see the 733 go, but progress is progress. It would have been cool to see some domestic 737NGs with Air NZ, but as I said above, it's cheaper for me to fly, I'm happy with an Airbus, or an Embraer, or Boeing etc.
As a simmer who generally flies scheduled flights and doesn't really fly Airbus, it's just one more reason I'll be doing my simming far from home

[Chairman]

QUOTE (scon @ Sep 17 2011,8:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... the the boys and girls in the RHS and maybe some in the LHS of a 73 who don't have the seniority for an equal position on the A320. So it will be back to the long haul airline they go.

Huh ? I'd have thought the long haul stuff required more seniority ? I appreciate the domestic crews do a lot more of the fun stuff (the up and down bits) and are home a lot more, but working your way up from 767 / 747 / 777 international to 737 / a320 domestic just sounds totally bassackwards.

[scon]

QUOTE (Chairman @ Sep 18 2011,4:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Huh ? I'd have thought the long haul stuff required more seniority ? I appreciate the domestic crews do a lot more of the fun stuff (the up and down bits) and are home a lot more, but working your way up from 767 / 747 / 777 international to 737 / a320 domestic just sounds totally bassackwards.

It depends on the role. Usually from a command position at a regional you will go into a S/O position on the long haul fleet (up until recently when the Recruit to Group process came into effect moving to the jet fleet was like going to a new airline entirely, i.e. you're seniority number restarts) , then when your numbers up move to an F/O on the 737, then back to the wide body aircraft as an F/O, then command on a narrow body then eventually back to the long haul airline in the LHS. But its a numbers game depending on your seniority and who bids for what. So at the moment I understand there are a bunch of guys on the 737 who when they are required to move will not have seniority for that position on the Airbus i.e a 737 Captain may be required to go back to the Long Haul fleet as F/O, so while the pay may be about the same going from a command position to a first officer position and spending more time away from home is not everyone's cup of tea, the reason for this is that any openings in the wide body fleet in a command role will go to the more senior A320 captains (granted there are some very senior 737 drivers who could probably move but given they have chosen to stay with the domestic airline already they will probably continue to do so and move to a command role on the A320), and as such there will be 737 F/Os who wont be able to move to the A320 and instead may have to go back to the 777/747 as an S/O. But it is a pretty complex system with people all over the show with different seniority who may have chosen to stay put for the last while who may or may not see this re shuffle and a time to make a move, or very very senior long haul captains who may be forced back to the A320 due to there age. But the people most likely not to make a forward step from this I believe are the people on the 737 who don't yet numbers to go to anything above what they currently do.

[FlyingKiwi]

Quality post there Scotty.

[Chairman]

Wow, had no idea it was that complex ! Thanks for that

[raddragon]

That’s just the beginning; the seniority system is pretty complicated. I tell you what was dumb though, the fact they brought an aeroplane they cannot turn around in the usual 30 mins. The main reason for the A320s long domestic turnaround is the hot brakes. The only way around this is a brake cooling kit – imagine all that extra fuel burn!

[Charl]

QUOTE (cowpatz @ Sep 18 2011,8:37 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...To me this is going to be a big mistake...

Boeing got caught totally flat-footed.
They were of course going for the new-build aircraft, quite a long way down the track, as usual taking the major American carriers with them.
Then the unthinkable happened: American Airlines made a sum, and bought the A320NEO.
Boeing had to scramble to avoid being domino'd out of the market.
They somehow managed to squeeze another 10cm out of the fan, but as you point out, the short undercarriage has hit its growth limit.
So more than 2 years behind, they must now try to catch up.
Airbus single-aisle sales are presently double Boeing's.

Even Airbus were caught by surprise, and acknowledge they are now the victims of their own success: the A320 replacement has had to be moved many years down the road.
EMBRAER will most certainly be looking at a plastic jet, early in the piece.
Funny how the markets work...

[AlisterC]

But let's not forget American Airlines has one of the oldest fleets in the US, and really need a new fleet "now", not 10 years time, if they are to become more economic in their operations. Boeing have such a backlog, that there was no possible way for Boeing to fulfill the American order on it's own. According to that article Boeing can't offer airlines delivery slots on the 737 until 2016 Having Airbus fill half the order makes sense for AAL to obtain a completely new fleet in as short a time as possible. (from what I read around the place)