NZFF

by **deaneb** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:58 pm

Well the last video sums it up well. Either the cable failed to release from the chopper, or it simply was not long enough to enable the chopper to land. Some people reckon one of the ground crew pulls it?

by **leow5263** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:04 pm

deaneb wrote:
QUOTE (deaneb @ Nov 23 2011,9:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Well the last video sums it up well. Either the cable failed to release from the chopper, or it simply was not long enough to enable the chopper to land. Some people reckon one of the ground crew pulls it?

Yeah, at 3:35 (just as the other camera guy runs past) you can see him jump up and grab it..

But H500Fan below explains it better

by **H500Fan** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:04 pm

the longline was shorter than the pylon it appears, so landing without release was impossible. If you don't have a weighted swivel or something to that effect a D shackle or rope alone is not enough weight to release the hook, the crewman may have been trying to release it, jumps up and by mistake pulls the line to the tower tight as well and its all over.
see second segment of video here:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Chopper-pilot-had-2...96/Default.aspx

by **deaneb** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:29 pm

H500Fan wrote:
QUOTE (H500Fan @ Nov 23 2011,10:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
the longline was shorter than the pylon it appears, so landing without release was impossible. If you don't have a weighted swivel or something to that effect a D shackle or rope alone is not enough weight to release the hook, the crewman may have been trying to release it, jumps up and by mistake pulls the line to the tower tight as well and its all over.
see second segment of video here:
http://www.3news.co.nz/Chopper-pilot-had-2...96/Default.aspx

Well that's what did it. I was looking at the guy to the left not the one directly under the chopper (which I never noticed til now). Very expensive mistake!

by **ZKNBA** » Thu Nov 24, 2011 1:06 am

Wow, i'm so glad that the pilot escaped relativity unharmed. If the aircraft had gone into the water it is quite possible that he could have drowned.
That job of putting up the Christmas tree must have been very dangerous (to be fair i'm not qualified to comment), especially considering the very tall masts of the nearby yachts. Was a helicopter really necessary to put up the Christmas tree? Surely a crane would be cheaper - i don't actually know, but am just wondering aloud.
Also lets think of the ground crew; it must have been very, very frightening for them (i have always been nervous of similar things happening when helicopters are operating close by). Kudos to the ones who bravely got the pilot out of the helicopter, despite the risk of fire.

Amazing to think that I walk across the site where the helicopter crashed so often. Also amazing that it was captured on several different videos.

ZK-NBA

by **HamiltonWest** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:33 pm

Auckland chopper crash pilot flies again
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6063402/Au...lot-flies-again

by **Ian Warren** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:59 pm

Ham , lotta people dont realise this , fact was this is exactly were he wanted to park it for the night

, Na serious , one has to recall the very well known respected pilot down south with a helicopter with tourist hitting cables , be interesting to see crash findings and another is could the more expensive NOTAR been a better choice .

by **Chairman** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:26 pm

I thought the cable got tangled up in the main rotor not the tail rotor ? If they managed to lasoo that then it was a top shot ! I think what you're thinking of is the vastly more expensive NOMAR system as fitted to Harrier jets :-)

by **Ian Warren** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:05 pm

Chairman wrote:
QUOTE (Chairman @ Nov 30 2011,7:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I thought the cable got tangled up in the main rotor not the tail rotor ?

If the mentioned cable was dropped how dose it affect the main rotor - has to be another maybe another tension cable , i believe its was a tail strike reason why you use a NOTAR

Chairman wrote:
QUOTE (Chairman @ Nov 30 2011,7:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
system as fitted to Harrier jets

Harriers use vectored thrust , little puffer jets , air bleed from the main engine piped out to points and on strategic points on the aircraft .

by **creator2003** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 7:11 pm

From the video shown i believe the guy jumped up to reach the cable pulling it tight which stuck the main rotor, it didnt look like it released at all untill it was ripped off by the rotor blades ,didnt see any vid evidence showing it hit the tail rotor at all ..

by **deaneb** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 8:46 pm

Definitely was a main rotor strike.

by **Squawk1200** » Wed Nov 30, 2011 9:11 pm

It was initially a main rotor strike as the kevlar longline was pulled into the main rotor, the line was then (not evident in the video) flung into the tail rotor causing that to destroy itself

by **deaneb** » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:56 pm

Squawk1200 wrote:
QUOTE (Squawk1200 @ Nov 30 2011,10:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It was initially a main rotor strike as the kevlar longline was pulled into the main rotor, the line was then (not evident in the video) flung into the tail rotor causing that to destroy itself

Sorry - but if you watch this video (in fact just look at the initial picture) the tail rotor is surprisingly intact. Certainly not destroyed !!!

by **H500Fan** » Fri Dec 02, 2011 6:26 pm

the tail "boom" got taken off like a cheese slicer when the line followed the blade around (AS350 has clockwise rotating main blade) which was still attached to the hook. a bit like a skipping rope action.

by **ZKNBA** » Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:54 pm

According to FlightGlobal's David Learmount the job should have been deemed to be too risky by the pilot:
http://j.mp/rvZeyp

by **chopper_nut** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 1:44 pm

These sort of armchair observations do nothing for anybody. Ground crew were the problem here.

by **H500Fan** » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:27 pm

chopper_nut wrote:
QUOTE (chopper_nut @ Dec 5 2011,2:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
These sort of armchair observations do nothing for anybody. Ground crew were the problem here.

couldn't agree more

by **deaneb** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:37 am

H500Fan wrote:
QUOTE (H500Fan @ Dec 5 2011,7:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
couldn't agree more

I disagree. Sure the groundcrew was responsible for pulling the cable. But if the ground crew were required to manually release the cable by pulling on it (with no weight on the hook, this was a likely outcome) then the possibility of a wire strike was very real. Any attempt to hover beside a cable which is still attached to both helicopter and tower is also dangerous. In fact I was flabbergasted when I saw the helicopter descend beside the tower so close to the lift cable.
The outcome confirms the danger - pretty simple really!

The Flightglobal article is mainly trying to encourage the use of risk assessment, which is a combination of the likelihood of an event occurring and the consequences. Learning, adopting and applying such techniques can only improve safety?

by **chopper_nut** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:22 am

I know what your saying and I agree in principle but the simple reality is that even when you have weight on those hooks sometimes they dont release. I know from experience. Even the manual release doesnt work sometimes. Helicopters do the jobs that nothing else can do and therefor you end up in situations that have the real possiblility of going pear shaped. The length of the line was more the issue here rather than it needing to be released manually. The thing that got to me about that article was that the assumption was made that no risk assesment was done.

by **deaneb** » Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:31 pm

chopper_nut wrote:
QUOTE (chopper_nut @ Dec 6 2011,10:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Helicopters do the jobs that nothing else can do and therefor you end up in situations that have the real possiblility of going pear shaped.

Very true. In this case a crane was a very viable option. Wonder why they even went down the route of using a helo in the first place?

NZFF

Helicopter crash in Auckland

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