This is interesting

[deeknow]

Sorry Rob. Your wrong about this. Please undo the action immediately. If the voices of pretty much all the regulars here aren't good enough then I dont know what is.
Come on mate !!!

[J7G]

That's a terrible decision, which could have been avoided if you'd locked the topic if you really didn't want it being discussed. This smacks of baiting.

Those two guys are two of the biggest posters to the forum. Suspending them will only hurt the forum.

What a terrible decision. Ban me, too, if you like; I won't be posting here again if this is the sort of rubbish that will continue to go on here.

[creator2003]

After dealing with Thatchers and having my design name ruined and my payware addons pirated i tend to support Ian and Doug , with the history of this matter being removed in the past i think it only fair that it has been brought to the table for the community as a whole to soke in and deal with together ,
Insight is a Good thing and everyday we are made aware by media that this person is scamming that person and so on and so on ,at least its on topic with NZ flight sim..

[lowglow]

QUOTE (toprob @ Mar 27 2013,9:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

'Childish' might not be as accurate as 'child-like', or naive.
Naive in expecting that this would finally 'win' this ongoing feud, and put an end to the Thatchers for ever.
Naive in thinking that you could continue posting regarding this matter even when asked not to do so.
Naive in thinking that it was ok to call the admin cowards, amongst other things, without any regard for the rules, without consequences.

Ian and Doug have been suspended for a month.

It seams to me Rob that your the only one on here that is worried about Ian and Doug's postings in a negative way looks like everyone else is in support of them?

[toprob]

Just to clarify -- nobody mentioned a ban, a suspension is just a cooling-off period. They both had plenty of chances to reign this in, but chose not to. Now they have a month. At the end of that time, they can resume their involvement, the only difference is that they now know that they are not able to breach the rules and get away with it simply because they are long-term, popular and useful members.

Where are all the other forums which have allowed discussion of this? Don't tell me Ian and Doug are right and the rest of the internet is wrong. There are plenty of ways to solve an injustice -- get your own forum, build a website called 'flightsimInjustice.com', go on Facebook. Just don't bring it here when the admin tell you that it isn't wanted.

[deaneb]

It seems that the forum rules and guidelines need to updated to include - no posts if a moderator does not agree with your (or many others) opinion. As it stands, I fail to see how Ian and Dougs postings breach the current rules, except for the fact you as moderator do not agree with discussing something that many others may not be aware of.

[nzav8tor]

Well one thing is for sure, the thread is aptly named!

[creator2003]

Well i believe you just killed NZFF ,this was a community once not a dictatorship with some strange agendas ,we have lost a lot of good members over the years the ones that pay for this forum and contribute , standing them down like children with your wonder keyboard is not Cool at all .
The ones that pay and support this forum are telling you are wrong and that your ban is unjustified, we dont care what other forums around the world do this is nzff we are leading the charge not following the sheep out to pastor .

[Naki]

QUOTE (deaneb @ Mar 28 2013,9:22 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It seems that the forum rules and guidelines need to updated to include - no posts if a moderator does not agree with your (or many others) opinion. As it stands, I fail to see how Ian and Dougs postings breach the current rules, except for the fact you as moderator do not agree with discussing something that many others may not be aware of.

Rules 2 & 6 have certainly been broken in my view.

With what I know about the group of people that live over the ditch it won't be the last we hear of them (there is a lot more than what you see here and elsewhere in the public that Robin and myself have had to deal with in the past) and they will be scheming their next move and this thread has just put a lot of fuel on the fire. Hopefully i will be pleasantly surprised that is the last we hear from them but i am not holding my breath. I am also of the view this whole thread should of been ditched earlier on. All this could of been sorted out via PMs and emails instead of in a public forum. If you have personal grievances with any one (whether a forum member or not) posting on a public forum is not the place, no matter how right you are.

I would also like to advise that I am resigning from admin once we get replacements. I just don't have the time to put the effort in when a crisis occurs. I should of resigned last year when life got very busy. It's also a pretty thankless job overall (not a great ad I know!) when the proverbial hits the fan and tough decisions have to be made. We are often stuck between a rock and hard place. In saying that this forum pretty much runs itself apart from the screenshot comp which Doug does an excellent job of despite the other issues. Any volunteers?

[creator2003]

Yes but hiding the fact that the Thatchers have pirated titles like HamiltonX ,FTX Orbx with my name as the uploader , ref James harris Church donation scams in Tasmania,fake global mapper licenses for photoreal which make a whole lot of addons around NZ and parts of OZ breeching international copyrights ,they have threaten with lawyers /cyber hacks/personal threats to admin ,ive had the ozzy police E crime unit keeping a eye on them and digging slowly into there scams since the last episode ,the community needs to know what they are like ,playing mind games with many people telling us that he is dead etc when he has just changed a name when shet was getting hot for them ,i mean i was told by them he was a Ozzy QC military lawyer ,a f18 pilot the list goes on ...

ah waste of time believe me trying to change opinions of admin ,the ssshhh stick will always get in the way ,side note 2.6 5 10 20 30 1 3 rulz are all broken by the Thatchers probably on a daily basis ...

[Naki]

Yes I am aware of all that. Yes they broke rules as well but they aren't members as their membership was deleted sometime ago and if they were still members they would of been banned. You cant apply rules to some members and not others.

[Naki]

Guys and gals if you think you can run this forum, you better put your hands up! I hope to see a flood of emails and PMs! You all whinge and moan about the current admins so if you want to take over the reigns and if you think you can do a better job let me or Robin know.

BTW (Robin will hate me for putting this here) whilst all this has been going on Robin has been recovering from surgery.

[creator2003]

Ok fair enough ,still the damage has been done and im sure it was a hard decision banning for any period the guy that has supported your payware addons by means of free agn for many years ,i know i couldnt or wouldnt do such a thing personally and would support anybody taking on the pirates which have damaged his business and sales ..real hard having to choose im sure .
the world if we want to talk about the view of others is to suppress the truth at the cost of others ,this time at the cost of poor Doug the liason man and our 20 odd years in-house Agn guy Ian Warren + the community of many well informed NZFF users ...

Epic Fail +another long term member exits NZFF due to the fails and agenda of 1 ...

[toprob]

I'll just make one comment about the rules, based on something Ian said on the phone yesterday. He mentioned that it was a good thing that we no longer enforced the rules any more. At the time I didn't bring this up, as we had a lot to talk over, but I'll mention it here.

I understand that Ian believes that we quit enforcing the rules a while back, and that this makes it ok to say what you like. This didn't happen that way, though. What we did was to stop proactively applying the rules. That is, in the past it was the job of the moderators to search the forum for breaches of the rules, and moderate them. Recently, though, we change tack, relying on the members to decide when breaches had been made, and only take action when a member was personally affected by a rule breach. This mean a rule breach, such as personal abuse, with no complaint or back-lash, equalled no foul. The fact that this worked so well was it's undoing, as we got to the stage where people did think that they could say what they liked, without repercussions. This is simply not true.

It is true, though, that this is skewed in favour of the admin, when the rule breach is aimed at us-- it takes just a few seconds to rule on a breach, and take action, when I am the subject of the abuse. Others have the same rights, but they do need to contact someone by pressing the 'report' button, or by other means, to get action.

QUOTE (creator2003 @ Mar 28 2013,11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ok fair enough ,still the damage has been done and im sure it was a hard decision banning for any period the guy that has supported your payware addons by means of free agn for many years ,i know i couldnt or wouldnt do such a thing personally and would support anybody taking on the pirates which have damaged his business and sales ..real hard having to choose im sure

Yes, it was one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make here. Ian and I have been friends for a long time, and this isn't the first screaming match we've had, so I would hope that we get back to normal at some stage. However I do think that if I let this go because he was my friend, supporter and truly nice guy, then I'd be setting myself up for an accusation of letting my mates break the rules. Being in this position -- having to choose between doing what I think is right for NZFF, and supporting my mates -- is really not possible to sustain, and this is one of the reasons why I've wanted to resign for a long, long time.

[Bazza]

So it seems at the moment the score is about 5 nil in favour of the Thatcher team....however at least two of those points come from "own goals.."

[sjimc2000]

I agree with Bazza.
It appears that if your a victim of crime then you cant tell your story here and inform other members ,, because, if you do you get booted. !!!

The thatchers will be laughing their heads off.

NZFF have made a huge mistake here.

[deaneb]

QUOTE (toprob @ Mar 28 2013,12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, it was one of the hardest decisions I've ever had to make here. Ian and I have been friends for a long time, and this isn't the first screaming match we've had, so I would hope that we get back to normal at some stage. However I do think that if I let this go because he was my friend, supporter and truly nice guy, then I'd be setting myself up for an accusation of letting my mates break the rules. Being in this position -- having to choose between doing what I think is right for NZFF, and supporting my mates -- is really not possible to sustain, and this is one of the reasons why I've wanted to resign for a long, long time.

I'm sure it was a tough decision. I hope you are satisfied in your mind that:
a. Both suspended individuals were forewarned that if their behaviour continued they would be suspended.
b. The rest of us clearly understand how and where rules 2 and 6 were broken, because I'm still confused.

I don't want this situation to get any worse than it is. We all need to be clear on what and how these rules apply to avoid this happening again.

[Adrian Brausch]

so..

The rules:


2. Respect all other members and visitors to the forum -- no personal attacks, insults or derogatory comments;

6. Don't post in anger. Yes, this is a rule;




My question is why are our very own NZ Developers in Question being Ian, Doug and Mike not allowed to inform and express views to the NZFF ( Im sure this stands for NEW ZEALAND Flightsim Forums ) of a couple scumbags ripping off their intellectual properties ?,..so you are saying they should respect these scumbags and not insult or make derogatory comments about them (Derogatory : Showing a critical or disrespectful attitude ). If it was not true it would be derogatory...it is true what the scumbags have done so no respect will be given or emplied. Dont Post in anger ?....,..put the subject of this whole mess in context,...these guys are stealing our stuff , like Phar Lap and pavlova . Why didnt you simply delete the thread at the beginning then PM Ian and Doug an explanation , then perhaps posting a " non offensive " post warning about the pirates and their dealings " to the NZFF community. Several forums I have seen in the past has a Blacklist where nown offenders and software pirates are named and shamed instead of hiding behind these rules so as not to cause a stir. Rob, your baby NZFF is an outstanding forum ,one of which is almost always my first port of call when I go online, I love reading our members stories and photo threads about everything NZ aviation and abroad . I am truly sorry Rob that you are suffering medically and I wish your speedy wellness but in this instance the rules were perhaps stretched but they had a right to inform our members of these pirates, it should have been dealt with without blinkers on. Stand up for our guys not publicly humiliate them like naughty schoolboys , and stop defending the offenders is all I am saying. There are rules and then there are "rules".

I love this forum, and respect you Rob immensely through your own hard work and tireless contributions to our favourite pastime (and to some a living ..eg. yourself, and Mike / Creator2003/FSCreations ,) re-instate Ian and Doug or I am gone too,..not that you care about that fact but I'm afraid I don't believe the rules implied here warrant Ian and Dougs suspension..that may have been the hardest decision you've had to make here...its still the wrong decision.

[Naki]

Adrian; both myself and Robin are gone as admin soon as we find replacements and then the replacements can make their own decisions on how the rules are interpreted, managed and changed if necessary.

[Splitpin]

"Why didnt you simply delete the thread at the beginning then PM Ian and Doug an explanation , then perhaps posting a " non offensive " post warning about the pirates and their dealings " to the NZFF community. Several forums I have seen in the past has a Blacklist where nown offenders and software pirates are named and shamed instead of hiding behind these rules so as not to cause a stir."

Exactly !! Ive had Rob remove a couple of my posts ...and he followed with a pm explanation, and i understood . The fact that this ran on so far is a problem..... but then i think ...why cant "victims" have their say ....just cant get my head around it 100% at the moment.

But all that aside ...get well soon Rob.