[Not] Becoming a pilot in 2013

[kiwi]

Hey guys, I just have to talk some frustration away , hope that's ok for you.

I also wanted to share this story with you. I don't know if here are pilots or flight students around or people who want to o that for a living.
For me this always was a very serious subject, I mean from 3rd grade on. And so, 9 years later, while I finished 12th grade (graduation year in Germany)
I sent my application to Lufthansa.
Ok you gotta know, I'm lazy. I graduated in June 2010 and all did for all my exams was yeah nothing. I didn't do anything at all.
Believe me, I'm not proud of that. Anyway, I passed all exams very well, a few even as the best.

So I had my Lufthansa assessment in August 2010 and it happened what had to happen, I didn't prepare myself well and fell through.
Trust me, if I knew, how it look like today, I would have sat down on my butt and learned that stuff!

Ok I failed at Lufthansa, and time has passed. My girlfriend decided to go abroad, closer, we went to New Zealand for a while. I thought, I might change my mind
and find something that I want as much as becoming a pilot. I was wrong. Having landed in Frankfurt I was sure, piloting is all I can do.

The situation wasn't ideal anymore. No real cadetships anymore and no cockpit jobs.
A friend of mine paid for his ATPL all by himself and was desperate to find a job, I mean he was close to be depressive. But one day he found a cockpit job.
A bad one, a really bad one, but who cares? He's got an Airbus A320 job, more than I could ever dream of so far.

So I made a decision, I would get a loan and pay for the training by myself, I would find a job somewhere.
Having said that I visited people and flight schools, talked about loans and found a school I was ok with.

3-4 schools would integrate me in their training one month later, when I (thank god) got back to level zero and said, what the hell am I doing?
I can't take a 100.000€ loan at the age of 20.
After that, I decided to start studying engineering. As soon as I started a thought crossed my mind :"what the hell are you doing here?!"

I got back to the pilot thought and applied for Swiss International Air lines and got invited to their 6 stage assessment very soon.
Having arrived in Zurich for once, I knew, this would be my last chance ever. I took the assessment and passed Stage I.

In Zurich I met a lot of people who were done with the ATPL training and who are now looking for a job at Swiss. These people weren't happy.
They were fighting, fighting for their existence. I mean these people would've done anything for a job.
I started to ask myself, if I'm too much into this, an if I should let loose a bit.

Well, one month after, I got invited to Stage II. A psychological test.

I failed and what I thought was: The odyssey is over. Until I read the second part of the e-mail that said "You may repeat the assessment in two years"

This isn't over yet. I made an appointment with the psychologist to talk about my weakness which made me fail.

A conversation which I will never forget.
She said only positive stuff. We talked for 15 minutes and 14 minutes of that was how I got all it takes.
I think it would have been better if she just said, you're not the one we're looking for.

2 years of waiting, for a 21 old, thats a long time. And I'm not sure, if I should try again.

I was told, I got everything it takes and yet failed. I don't want to cry around or anything. I can understand their decision.
Just for those who want to try all this (maybe even in Europe) don't think you'll make it even when you're good at it.
I'm happy I failed, because it opened my eyes. I will study and get a bachelor degree before I enter any cockpit job.

So before you apply, think about what it means to be a pilot.

You gotta be flexible, which means people will bend you.

[mavman]

Hi there,

First of all I would have to say never give up on your dream, you may have hit a few stumbling blocks but the thing that shines through for me is flying is your dream job and you clearly have the passion and determination to become a pilot. Maybe not this year or next but you have age on your side and we've all heard about the forecast worldwide shortage of pilots.

Have you thought of studying for your private pilots licence in the meantime? A few hours here and there soon adds up. Also gets you into a cockpit and at the controls even if it isn't an airliner!

Just keep the dream alive, I have and I've got 10+ years on you! Keep up your sim flying too, loving your screenshots!

Good luck!

[kiwi]

QUOTE (mavman @ Jul 4 2013,11:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi there,

First of all I would have to say never give up on your dream, you may have hit a few stumbling blocks but the thing that shines through for me is flying is your dream job and you clearly have the passion and determination to become a pilot. Maybe not this year or next but you have age on your side and we've all heard about the forecast worldwide shortage of pilots.

Have you thought of studying for your private pilots licence in the meantime? A few hours here and there soon adds up. Also gets you into a cockpit and at the controls even if it isn't an airliner!

Just keep the dream alive, I have and I've got 10+ years on you! Keep up your sim flying too, loving your screenshots!

Good luck!

Thanks for you answer!

yeh, but a PPL is about 6000-9000€, which is simply not affordable for me.

And I actually don't really care what I'd be flying. I would fly ANZ 773ER but also an old IL through siberia, or a B1900D through NZ

Thank you for the kind words!

[jpreou]

I also wanted to fly since I was knee high to a grass hopper. Somehow just never made it happen. Skydiving kept me in the air and molified for twenty+ years of mostly instructing (so at least I wasn't paying fo rit!). I've always wanted helis, but no expensive. Realising that helis were out, and I was too old to head for a self-funded CPL, I was in a 'good' place financially a few years ago and started building my own RV-8 aircraft. Martial separation and the end of that dream ensured after four years and a *lot* of money (vast majority of which I lost on the sale of the partially built plane). I'm now trying for a PPL, but with a 6-person family on a single income it is ... shall we say ... frustrating. I know how you feel; I too feel your pain. I'm 41 now ... still haven't given up ... won't be commercial but I'll get up there some how ... even just for fun.

Hope you make it; stay determined; don't lose sight of the dream; think of other ways to make it happen. Immerse yourself in aviation; doors will open. It will be along hard road; one that I should have take and didn't / couldn't (depending on your viewpoint). If you want it enough; make it happen somehow. Take my advice though; if you feel strongly, don't let 'other things' stand in your way, or you'll be me in years to come!

Good luck, stay positive, blue skies and tailwinds :-)

[goingboeing]

I didn't start flying until I was 23, I was the oldest in my class. I did it the old fashioned way $80,000 student loan and worked thursday friday saturday nights in bars to pay the bills. I then got a job which saw me flying all through Africa, America, PNG and N.Z. and now after 6 or so years I am flying for an Air NZ regional. Aviation has a ridiculous amount of ups and downs and I agree that you have to be absolutely sure that it is what you want to do, I can't imagine myself doing anything else now.

I can see why some of the major european carriers are doing cadetships and the like but I almost feel sorry for the pilots. They don't get the awesome real flying experiences that we got, nothing beats flying 80ft agl over elephants in deep dark africa or flying with f18s off the wingtip in texas. So in summary while I have a massive loan hanging over me I don't regret it for a second if flying a computer (A320) straight away is your thing then go for a cadetship and dont give up keep trying. but definitely give thought to the alternatives. and to add it was the oldest guys in my class who got jobs after training seems a bit of life experience is also a good thing in aviation. All the best

[kiwi]

Thanks for all your words. Appreciated!

QUOTE (goingboeing @ Jul 5 2013,10:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I didn't start flying until I was 23, I was the oldest in my class. I did it the old fashioned way $80,000 student loan and worked thursday friday saturday nights in bars to pay the bills. I then got a job which saw me flying all through Africa, America, PNG and N.Z. and now after 6 or so years I am flying for an Air NZ regional. Aviation has a ridiculous amount of ups and downs and I agree that you have to be absolutely sure that it is what you want to do, I can't imagine myself doing anything else now.

I can see why some of the major european carriers are doing cadetships and the like but I almost feel sorry for the pilots. They don't get the awesome real flying experiences that we got, nothing beats flying 80ft agl over elephants in deep dark africa or flying with f18s off the wingtip in texas. So in summary while I have a massive loan hanging over me I don't regret it for a second if flying a computer (A320) straight away is your thing then go for a cadetship and dont give up keep trying. but definitely give thought to the alternatives. and to add it was the oldest guys in my class who got jobs after training seems a bit of life experience is also a good thing in aviation. All the best

It's the fear of ending with that amount of debt and not finding a job. It's simple as that. I mean, I don't like that it's not even an ATPL but an MPL right now. The end of the romantic flying, as you said, is over here.
Procedures procedures procedures.
And as I said before, I wouldn't mind that flying! But not with such a big risk. Or at least not before I have finished a bachelor degree.

[Yob]

QUOTE (kiwi @ Jul 5 2013,6:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for all your words. Appreciated!




It's the fear of ending with that amount of debt and not finding a job. It's simple as that. I mean, I don't like that it's not even an ATPL but an MPL right now. The end of the romantic flying, as you said, is over here.
Procedures procedures procedures.
And as I said before, I wouldn't mind that flying! But not with such a big risk. Or at least not before I have finished a bachelor degree.

Well what i am currently doing is engineering so that will pay for my pilots license. Due to the huge mining boom in Australia it needs lots of engineers. I hope it works out in the end for ya.

[kiwi]

QUOTE (Yob @ Jul 5 2013,8:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well what i am currently doing is engineering so that will pay for my pilots license. Due to the huge mining boom in Australia it needs lots of engineers. I hope it works out in the end for ya.

I thought about that as well and even started engineering. (stopped by now)
But I'm from Germany, and we here are really struggling. Maybe you heard about the euro crisis.

[Yob]

Yea sry no bad things meant i know bout the crisis but if ya come to aus for work aus employs skilled people like there going out of fashion.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (kiwi @ Jul 5 2013,9:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Or at least not before I have finished a bachelor degree.

Arr so lucky to have a bachelor degree , so good at that sorta paper work

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Yob @ Jul 5 2013,9:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yea sry no bad things meant i know bout the crisis but if ya come to aus for work aus employs skilled people like there going out of fashion.

I'm not skilled yet, which is why I'm heading towards a bachelor.

QUOTE

Arr so lucky to have a bachelor degree , so good at that sorta paper work[/quote]

You're not worth anything here without a bachelor. Even a bachelor doesn't grant you anything, at least a Master.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (kiwi @ Jul 5 2013,9:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not skilled yet, which is why I'm heading towards a bachelor.
at least a Master.

Its the paper and .. Master .. Nah ... Its a Marsbar .. International flying hanger cat

[kiwi]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Jul 5 2013,10:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its the paper and .. Master .. Nah ... Its a Marsbar .. International flying hanger cat

I'll be selling mars bars instead, how bout that Ian?

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (kiwi @ Jul 5 2013,10:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll be selling mars bars instead, how bout that Ian?

Mars just said , Jimmy Jilllickers .... Not again

[chopper_nut]

After reading this thread a few times I think I should share my story and some thoughts.

I was like most of you out there as a kid. I always wanted to fly. I was lucky in the fact that my father knew a lot of people in the industry so I was flying in helicopters and light aircraft before my 5th birthday. I remember a number of trips in Southern Lakes Jetrangers back in the 80s. The fact that these things stuck in my head means that I always had flying on the brain. I spent much time travelling around with my father visiting airfields and being around aviation. Like a lot of you again, I joined the Young Eagles program when I was 10 or 11 I think and had a few memorable flights out of that. (One particular flight in a Super Cub stands out). By the time I got to high school, I had discovered that I am not as smart as most people and failed pretty much everything from 4th Form onwards with the exception of History and Physics. My guidance councillor asked me one day what I wanted to do with my life and I told her that I wanted to be a pilot. She flicked through her little book of careers and said that it was unlikely that I would be able to do so due to my abysmal grades.

I left school at the end of 6th Form and did a Diploma in Tourism as it was a field that I decided would be a good one to get into. I learnt more about myself in those two years than I did throughout all of high school. I had another wake up call when I finished my qualification: Just because you have the qualification, doesn't mean that people will employ you. I bummed around doing crappy factory and sales jobs for a few years just to get by but I still travelled around on my time off being a 'skid biter'. For those of you who don't know what that is, its somebody who hangs around helicopters (or aeroplanes) being a pain in the arse. One day, I decided to go have some fun and booked a trial flight with Helipro in Wellington. The flight was in a H300 and it was the first time I had had my hands and feet on the controls. It was something I needed to do to keep the dream alive. I got a job with Fulton Hogan as a labourer and this gave me more money to be able to travel the countryside visiting airports and the like. Around this time I started flying with the Wellington Aero Club on the weekends. Finally I was becoming part of the aviation fraternity in a form other than the aforementioned 'skid biter'. We did a number of club trips to various parts of the country that only stirred my juices. The job at Fulton Hogan was still paying the bills however it was another job that I was pretty useless at and while having a few drinks one night at the boss' place, a foreman came over to me and said 'Nick your a nice guy but your f*cking useless at this job. Why don't you go flying, it seems like that's all you want to do' I'll always be grateful for that comment because it began a series of events that led me to where I am now.

I left Fultons after two years and joined WIAL (Wellington Airport) as an operations coordinator. At least this way I would be on the ground level in aviation. I continued to fly at the aero club but after a particularly frustrating autumn where I managed to do about 4 hours flying, I moved to Blenheim in the hope of finding better weather. I scored a job at Mainfreight driving a courier van and flew with the Marlborough Aero Club under the mostly gentle guidance of Wilkey (who a lot of you will know). One day my life changed when I decided to go for another trial flight in an R22 with a one man band operating out of Omaka. I sat down that night with a beer. I really needed something stronger because the adrenalin was still pumping. I sat down with a calculator and paper and tried to work out a way to make helicopter flying work. The end result is that, well... it wouldn't. I was going to need a plan B. I got a bank loan for my PPL and went at it. At about 40 hours the money ran out and I was on the bones of my arse trying to make the loan repayments, rent etc. My instructor suggested I get on the student loan scheme and go to Motueka. I was a bit sceptical about the loan as it was going to be huge by the time I finished but there was no stopping my flying dream now.

I moved over to Motueka and signed on. I completed what was left of my theory and went flying. Great weather, great scenery and great people. That's all I have to say about that place. I won't bore you with the details and anecdotes from my time there but I will say that I had a great time. Partly because of the house I lived in and partly due to the college. After completing my CPL, the reality check came again when I went job hunting. Just because you have the qualification, doesn't mean that people will employ you. Remember that? I managed to get in the queue for an instructor rating and upon completing that, I was given my 100 hours of direct supervision. That's another thing I'll always be grateful for. I went job hunting again, this time with 400 hours rotary. Surely this time I would get something. Short answer, NO. s**t. Now what? Somebody must have been watching out for me though because I got thrown a bone. Frost work! I was put on contract at Wither Hills in Blenheim and in an FH1100. Turbine time! For the first time, I was going to be a pilot on a proper job. Then the unthinkable happened. Low pressure systems and unseasonably warm weather. No frost. s**t. Now what? Somebody else was keeping an eye on me though because it was almost apple picking season by then. I took a job driving tractors in Motueka. It was hard work, long hours and to make matters worse, the orchard was right underneath the flight path between Motueka aerodrome and the low flying area so I was constantly reminded that I wasn't flying.

One day I was on Facebook while sitting on the tractor and saw that a good mate of mine just got a job flying in Australia. Time for another life changing moment of clarity. All the proceeds from apple season were from then on saved and I booked a return trip. I didn't want to take the plunge and only book a one way ticket just in case I didn't find anything. I drove all over NSW and Victoria looking for something, anything. No joy until I got a call from a fella I talked to on the first day I was in Sydney. He asked me if I was going through Orange and if I was to stop in at his base there and talk to the manager. I did so and spent a few hours talking shop with Joel and carried on. My last day in Australia was in Melbourne and I drove down to Phillip Island as I heard they were after a pilot there. Something very strange happened there; I was told I have too many hours for their operation. Very strange. I called up the guy from Sydney and told him I was off home. I said 'What the hell are you doing in Phillip Island?' I told him that's where helicopters were so I was there. He replied 'Don't worry laddie, I think we could use you in Orange'. Jackpot! a job in Australia. I moved over here and have been here for two years now.

I guess what I'm trying to convey with all of that is that flying is something that you have to love. It actually goes beyond love, it has to be a passion, a dream and you have to follow your dream. No matter what it takes. I lived rough throughout all of my training. Lived on noodles and beans, didn't have a girlfriend, drove a crappy car, didn't go on big drinking benders, didn't go on holiday, all so I could fly. Your concerned about ending up with a massive loan? Too bad. That's the way it has to be with most people. Your worried you wont get a job? Rubbish. If you really want to fly, you will find something. It may not be the dream job to start with but you have to keep working for the dream. You think that I want to be stuck in an R22 with a novice for the rest of my career? Flying is flying and if you love flying then it doesn't matter what your in. It can be a cruel and sh*tty industry at times. It has a way of kicking you when your down. I wont say that I've enjoyed every moment of the last 6 years that I've been flying but then there are days where you are just so happy to be alive. Flying has taken me to some strange and wonderful places. From The Red Lion pub in Hokitika to the Caiguna Road House in Western Australia, from the tops of mountains in NZ and to the vast expanse of nothingness of the Australian outback. What's next? Who knows really but I have some strong leads that may land me out in the western pacific. If that comes off then it'll just be the next step in an incredible adventure.