Syrian civil war

[J7G]

QUOTE (FunkymonkeyNZ @ Sep 6 2013,11:58 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes but then you replied that this isn't about oil. Its pretty simple to see that the United States is just protecting her interests and that's plainly Oil. and it also gets them closer to Iran. Its fairly obvious. If the U.S were the world police they think they are then where were they in Rwanda? why not take out president Mugabe for all the atrocities, Kosovo? i can go on and on here. but why? there was no financial benefit for them. Lets face it, this is modern day empire and what do big empires do? they resource horde. those who has the most toys wins!

Frankly, I cannot debate with you. Yeah it looks like a copout but I don't really care. You should apply Occom's Razor.

[Splitpin]

Sorry ... this may have been me (again) but they were just questions (at the start) , i cant control the follow on.

[Fozzer]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Sep 6 2013,6:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry ... this may have been me (again) but they were just questions (at the start) , I cant control the follow on.

...and on a lighter note...

....I'll just take this opportunity to wish you a HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Split!..... ...!

Paul... ...!

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (Fozzer @ Sep 7 2013,4:34 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...and on a lighter note...

....I'll just take this opportunity to wish you a HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Split!..... ...!

Paul... ...!

Thanks Paul .... a lighter note is a perfect note .

[toprob]

Here's a question for ya -- if you were John Key, will you agree to give the US 'moral support' next week?

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (toprob @ Sep 7 2013,6:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's a question for ya -- if you were John Key, will you agree to give the US 'moral support' next week?

Rob ... your going to get me in trouble again But , if it were in my power , then i would say no.
I know woman and children are involved , i understand the whole gas ban thing ..... but it took how many years to stop Saddam from doing it , and its not far removed from Israel useing White phosphorus ....(just last year), Since 1968, Israel has violated 32 resolutions that included condemnation or criticism of the governments' policies and actions.

And i still maintain , that a B-52 is a weapon of mass destruction .

On 3 news last night ... or maybe the night before , reports of the non Syrian govt forces (read القاعدة .... Al Qaeda) killing troops from the other side .... WHY are the west backing the people they want too get rid of ??

The world has gone mad ..... if this moves on , and Obama gets what (i think he wants) god save us all.
Leave it alone .... put some of this energy into fixing Fukushima , and the starving , cancer research ..... these people have been at it for a thousand years (even without the bloody gas).... Nothing !! will stop them .

Cheers Rob ..... my blood pressure just went up 10 or so points.

[Ian Warren]

Again same question and answers , like all politicians , trouble makers , terrorists and still come back to the same questions , so easy people forget

QUOTE (toprob @ Sep 7 2013,7:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Here's a question for ya -- if you were John Key, will you agree to give the US 'moral support' next week?

I don't recall ...

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (Ian Warren @ Sep 7 2013,7:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again same question and answers , like all politicians , trouble makers , terrorists and still come back to the same questions , so easy people forget


I don't recall ...

If only it was that easy Ian ..... i think this thing i started (Post)....should die a natural death . ...Im sorry.
Im over it .... so over it , let the mad bastards do what they want .... if we do something , they will be doing the same in 20 years, if we dont .... the same.
They hate us all anyway , so whats the point.
A quote from Bin Laden " You (the west) love life .... we love Death" you will never win against that mentality , so why even bother..... just keep feeding your young people into a meat grinder , and when the time comes (which it will) , explain it.... if you can.

[kcgb]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Sep 7 2013,6:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

and its not far removed from Israel useing White phosphorus ....(just last year),

And i still maintain , that a B-52 is a weapon of mass destruction .

First, White phosphorus isnt a chemical weapon, even US and NATO use it. Its an incidary weapon that produces a poisous gas, but its not much diffirent than smoke from a house fire, you still have to inhale it for a while before it will kill you.

Second, the B-52 is harmless if it dosnt have any armament, its what it carries that makes it a WMD, you wouldn't call a C-130 a WMD but it can carry a 22,000 pound bomb....

[toprob]

I must admit that I don't see this as black and white, common sense tells me that the US are prepared to go against the rest of the world to enforce their position, and I also think that this is the result of Israel calling in some favours. If anyone is going to precipitate a crisis, it'll be Israel. If the US bombs Syria, then Israel can say to their enemies -- of which there are a few very close by -- "See what happens when we snap our fingers? Back off or it'll be your turn."

But the other side of this is that these are people just like us. Fifteen years ago it was Bosnia looking for help, and in the end NATO (legally) took action against Serbia. Back then this was personal enough to me that I could celebrate the NATO bombing. You can see why this was personal to me here at the Wayback Machine, which remembers everything every put on the web....

This issue is too common to worry about being the end of the world -- it could be a step forward, depending on the outcome, and I don't mean what happens in Syria. If the world accepts what the US is planning without any censure, then it'll definitely be a dangerous step backwards. But I don't think they will -- the UK were the 'voice' of the US last time, with their honest British accents assuring everyone that the WMDs must be dealt with -- and they learnt a sharp lesson, which they didn't fall for this time. Good on them.

Any nation offering 'moral' support is effectively giving away their right to censure when things go horribly wrong. It's really saying hey, it might be illegal, but it's right. That's a big decision to make, and really gives the US a lot more leeway than any nation should have.

The US have already deployed the ultimate WMD. I guess that gives them a certain perspective. But it's a bit close to 'nobody has the right to have too much power... except us.'

[Splitpin]

"First, White phosphorus isnt a chemical weapon" i didn't say it was.... but they weren't firing it to create just smoke ...

"Second, the B-52 is harmless if it dosnt have any armament, its what it carries that makes it a WMD," true , but when deployed in the role they were designed for .... what do they carry Kade ?... BALLOONS with smiley faces on them ? give me a break kid.

And re the C-130 with a 22,000 pounder on board .... if its on board , then its a WMD !

So what is your solution? and the long term benefits of such ?Im really interested.

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (toprob @ Sep 7 2013,8:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I must admit that I don't see this as black and white, common sense tells me that the US are prepared to go against the rest of the world to enforce their position, and I also think that this is the result of Israel calling in some favours. If anyone is going to precipitate a crisis, it'll be Israel. If the US bombs Syria, then Israel can say to their enemies -- of which there are a few very close by -- "See what happens when we snap our fingers? Back off or it'll be your turn."

But the other side of this is that these are people just like us. Fifteen years ago it was Bosnia looking for help, and in the end NATO (legally) took action against Serbia. Back then this was personal enough to me that I could celebrate the NATO bombing. You can see why this was personal to me here at the Wayback Machine, which remembers everything every put on the web....

This issue is too common to worry about being the end of the world -- it could be a step forward, depending on the outcome, and I don't mean what happens in Syria. If the world accepts what the US is planning without any censure, then it'll definitely be a dangerous step backwards. But I don't think they will -- the UK were the 'voice' of the US last time, with their honest British accents assuring everyone that the WMDs must be dealt with -- and they learnt a sharp lesson, which they didn't fall for this time. Good on them.

Any nation offering 'moral' support is effectively giving away their right to censure when things go horribly wrong. It's really saying hey, it might be illegal, but it's right. That's a big decision to make, and really gives the US a lot more leeway than any nation should have.

The US have already deployed the ultimate WMD. I guess that gives them a certain perspective. But it's a bit close to 'nobody has the right to have too much power... except us.'

Rob , its just sad that they have to be " enemies" .... this area is where, what we all hold dear , Christian or not , to be the place where it all began.

[kcgb]

QUOTE (Splitpin @ Sep 7 2013,8:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

"First, White phosphorus isnt a chemical weapon" i didn't say it was.... but they weren't firing it to create just smoke ...

"Second, the B-52 is harmless if it dosnt have any armament, its what it carries that makes it a WMD," true , but when deployed in the role they were designed for .... what do they carry Kade ?... BALLOONS with smiley faces on them ? give me a break kid.

And re the C-130 with a 22,000 pounder on board .... if its on board , then its a WMD !

So what is your solution? and the long term benefits of such ?Im really interested.

Ouch my feels , I wasn't attacking you just saying my thoughts even if it may have not come across that way.

I dont have a solution, im not a world power, but you don't just let a war crime be committed, they are still punishing and taking former Nazi's to court. Not saying war is how to do it but if thats what the US wants then theres nothing much we can do about it. Obama dug himself a hole by saying that he would attack syria, if he dosnt't they think China, Iran, Korea and others will not see them to be as powerful and ruthless as they thought. Iran has already allegedly told militants in Iraq to attack US bases if they attack syria.

also, WP isnt used just to create smoke.... thats why I said its an incendiary weapon. Its used to burn things.

[toprob]

QUOTE (kcgb @ Sep 7 2013,8:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Obama dug himself a hole by saying that he would attack syria, if he dosnt't they think China, Iran, Korea and others will not see them to be as powerful and ruthless as they thought. Iran has already allegedly told militants in Iraq to attack US bases if they attack syria.

Yeah, you can see why some parts of the world have a hatred for the US -- imagine having to bury your son/daughter, just because the US didn't want to appear weak. Even if they do stand aside here, I'll still be just as scared of them.

[Ian Warren]

You can all keep running around the same pole , fact is every country in this region is so unstable - one blames the other and visa-versa , most of it is 'Religion' and lack of 'Education', fueled by income of activists don't help, other excuse is the oil and when they get a little power they go friggen nuts, and when something go's wrong they look for the outside world and media crying "would someone please think of the children"

Simple : Close the borders and walk away ... One quote just recent was When we were at war with Lebanese only seven years back ... Hang on ! only seven years .. in between it was everyone else ... the clash's and skirmish's - border strikes ... arr peoples memory's are like the John Keys "I don't Recall"

Lock the region down and let em go for it , maybe they might learn something from there on mistakes rather the lead others into the dribble.

I really do need a Job at the UN ... B-52 s , Have you not heard off the "Love Shack"

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (kcgb @ Sep 7 2013,8:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ouch my feels , I wasn't attacking you just saying my thoughts even if it may have not come across that way.

I dont have a solution, im not a world power, but you don't just let a war crime be committed, they are still punishing and taking former Nazi's to court. Not saying war is how to do it but if thats what the US wants then theres nothing much we can do about it. Obama dug himself a hole by saying that he would attack syria, if he dosnt't they think China, Iran, Korea and others will not see them to be as powerful and ruthless as they thought. Iran has already allegedly told militants in Iraq to attack US bases if they attack syria.

also, WP isnt used just to create smoke.... thats why I said its an incendiary weapon. Its used to burn things.

No problem .... Im sorry for ranting , your opinion is as valid as mine.

[Adrian Brausch]

I am actually more concerned with the US and the Bear,...Russia saying to the US that if they go into Syria unilaterally they will see it as an act of aggression.....now THAT is something I am scared of.

[Ian Warren]

QUOTE (Adrian Brausch @ Sep 8 2013,12:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am actually more concerned with the US and the Bear,...Russia saying to the US that if they go into Syria unilaterally they will see it as an act of aggression.....now THAT is something I am scared of.

I see the Bear 'Putin' on a "hey look at me circus act" with the recent summit ... Gawd , maybe the US Prez should try the same ego trip ... do the ole Bush approach "Hey yo Dave" greeting or even a "Hey yo Putsie "

[Splitpin]

QUOTE (Adrian Brausch @ Sep 7 2013,11:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am actually more concerned with the US and the Bear,...Russia saying to the US that if they go into Syria unilaterally they will see it as an act of aggression.....now THAT is something I am scared of.

Me too AB .... and from a strictly personal point of view .... he (Putin) may be right . Lets get all the facts .... (as if we ever would ) but lets hope.
Russia has been living in the shadow of the west for sometime now , and for whatever reason they are keen to establish themselves as a world power again .... i think to write them off would be a big mistake .
I watched with interest recently , a debate on CNN (doubtful viewing at the best of times) , and it seems the U.S is only interested in making the present regime look good ..... "we started off strong ... we must follow through, for the president "

Anyway , its all been said .... Im not going into it anymore (for now)

[Splitpin]

Good on you Mr Putin ..... lets hope the plan works ....